Did anyone see this. http://youtu.be/XuKrwmcRYCg (http://youtu.be/XuKrwmcRYCg)
Mike
Very interesting and uplifting.
Carl
Watch it! One breath say Legal, the next breath says, Be Careful, don't use them at the range???????????
Still a slippery slope as far as I am concerned, not worried to much about it really, but I have heard so much on this subject both pro and con that I just don't know the real answer. Maybe I will ask my cop-like buddy's opinion.
RIch
I have many friends that are police and they don't know nothing about air gun laws but the guy in the vid was right about one thing a air gun is not a firearm and thats what the law say's firearms. Im not to worried about this just thought some would like to see the vid. In a court of law we would win.
Mike
Another opinoin. For some reasion it wont link just do a search. http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/muzzle brakes/ (http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/muzzle%20brakes/)
on a forum i cant recall the atf sent the poster a letter stating firearm shushers were regulated and they have no control over airguns because they are not firearms next comes state level government they have control over airguns and the do's and dont's
yup, here a 25 dollar fine if you don't have a tax stamp for a FIRE ARM husher ---- doesn't mean the law can't make a head ache for you though
http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm (http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm)
In Illinois, Larger than .18 caliber and 700 fps, is a firearm.
From Illinois State Police website " What Is A Firearm?"
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
So I don't know how they can sell the Whisper Quiet High power Airguns and the bigbox stores, being that they are considered firearms here.
maybe you need a foid/froid card to purchase them
Yes you need a foid to buy them.
What I mean though is the guns with the "quieting devices" on the ends of the barrels.
By law, the "devices" are illegal and they are on a "firearm"
So exempting them from the ban because they are on an air rifle doesn't hold water. In Illinois.
Pretty confusing stuff.
In Wisconsin and other states, members of the open carry of firearms movement have found out that the police are not the ones to ask what is or is not legal.Members have been arrested and put in jail for doing what an officer said was illegal.After taking the police dept. and cities to court .It was the arrested that helped the officer,dept. and cities know what the law is.
Lesson learned : Don't ask your buddy,the cop,what the law is.
Also. It took a lot of money to win these cases in court.In the end it worked out ,but you could loose everything to prove it.It's just the way things are.
Quote from: BGRooster1 on October 06, 2011, 01:34:37 AM
Lesson learned : Don't ask your buddy,the cop,what the law is.
It's not really fair to tar them with the same brush. ???
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tar+with+the+same+brush (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tar+with+the+same+brush)
I have read all posted/linked info.
My question is how in the world what you can get from TKO22.com is ok?
I'd like a whatchamacallit for indoor use.
Quote from: cmj21973 on October 06, 2011, 03:36:32 PM
I have read all posted/linked info.
My question is how in the world what you can get from TKO22.com is ok?
I'd like a whatchamacallit for indoor use.
There really is no clear cut answer to this question. Each state tends to have its own rules and those are based on guidelines from the US government. But in most cases that have gone to court, airguns fail to be classified as firearms so the case of a shthing are thrown out.
Carl
Quote from: quickster47 on October 06, 2011, 05:27:54 PM
There really is no clear cut answer to this question. Each state tends to have its own rules and those are based on guidelines from the US government. But in most cases that have gone to court, airguns fail to be classified as firearms so the case of a shthing are thrown out.
Carl
its more the state its self than the US government.here's an example
there are only 2 states in the whole US that dont allow trigger devices for simulated full auto firing of a firearm.the bmf trigger activator gives the trigger a gattling gun effect,allowed by the atf in the whole US
mn and ca made them illegal in their states.even though illegal in theses states one could still get the device
just because its deemed illegal doesnt mean it can not be sold.the last i heard the US spends more money on illegal drugs than anywhere in the world.its up to the individual person to check the laws and decide if they want to be a criminal or law abiding citizen
look at the gamo whisper or the maurader being sold directly from the factory/company.why they can get away with it is anybody's guess.
Even the new .357 Crosman Rogue has a shroud and baffles and is supposed to be quiet when fired. And that gun has been making the rounds of different States with no problem. Go figure...
Carl
It could be to do with the item being threaded or built in. Eg; a 1/2 unf thread versus a shroud?
One being deemed more permanent and potentially less adaptable?
One being sold factory quiet versus one that can be made quiet?
Or just detachable?
I'm just throwing these ideas out, I have no idea! ;)
factory quiet is exceptable legally --- made to on the other hand is questionable depending on location
Quote from: eric on October 06, 2011, 11:29:23 PM
factory quiet is acceptable legally --- made to on the other hand is questionable depending on location
Both your point eric and Northstar's point are very plausible, understandable and probably the reality of the Crosman stuff.
Carl
heres the other example of grey area US law
the thompson contender
its a pistol and a rifle by old US law that is illegal but thompson got to do it legally and no one else could do it legally.
recently the law changed to allow pistols to become rifles without a short barrel/aow tax stamp but iirc you still have to use a 16" barrel.if you ask 100 people including the atf, you will get 100 different answers
its always a grey area in the US
when it comes to airguns they are regulated by individual states,not the US government
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/TITLES.HTM (http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/TITLES.HTM)
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf (http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf)
Ok, so my understanding is that airguns & whatchamacallit's fall under Federal regs in KY.
Quote from: cmj21973 on October 07, 2011, 07:17:43 AM
http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/TITLES.HTM (http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/TITLES.HTM)
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf (http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf)
Ok, so my understanding is that airguns & whatchamacallit's fall under Federal regs in KY.
how did you come to this conclusion?
i didnt see anything in the second link or the first one but maybe i missed it
airguns ARE NOT federally regulated ---- they ARE NOT fire arms ----- some states will regulate them (air rifles and/or air pistols) for what ever reasons they have
Quote from: eric on October 07, 2011, 05:10:04 PM
airguns ARE NOT federally regulated ---- they ARE NOT fire arms ----- some states will regulate them (air rifles and/or air pistols) for what ever reasons they have
x2 Thank you eric :-*
Quote from: 1377x on October 07, 2011, 04:54:06 PM
how did you come to this conclusion?
i didnt see anything in the second link or the first one but maybe i missed it
1) As the two previous link, covering state & local firearm regs, define a firearm as weapons that expels a projectile by an explosive. Therefore, airgun not a firearm.
2) As the two previous link, covering state & local firearm regs, don't mention anything about a shh for airgun or firearm. They must fall under Federal regs. The ones for firearms are legal to own/possess here, if you pay $200 and apply for permit per Federal reg.
Seeing as there are
NO Federal regs on airguns, a shh designed/made/sold for or on an airgun falls in the grey area. ;)
This is the only document that even mentions airguns.
http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/1112huntingguideentire.pdf (http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/1112huntingguideentire.pdf)
no, an airgun is not a firearm,
but a whatchamacallit IS considered to be, if you can put it on a firearm. Thats why guns like the gamo whisper and full barrel shrouds are OK
Also commercial shrouds are in general internally different to a Ssssh tube but both can reduce the report.
The difference in tech may account for one being OK over another.
In NJ, any Airgun, whether it shoots pellets or just air, are considered Firearms and regulated. But then to, are Slingshots and Peashooters. The funny thing though, is that the same people who pushed for laws like these are the same ones who, if they move to states like Florida, after getting their DL changed, they go right out and purchase a handgun then get a CCW permit.
Mike at TKO22.com went in to a ton of detail regardign the rules and why they exist. Let's just say, on the phone he does not call it a muzzle brake. Also his Muzzle brakes could not be installed on a firearm, as they would explode into a million pieces from the muzzle blast. Since AGs are not firearms and this part could not be installed on a firearm, the muzzle brake is not claasified as a firearm, or illeagal. of ocurse all this is going to up to the interpretation of your DA, should you run into issues. I'm certainly not going to walk down the streets waving mine around. But i'll be danged if my gun doesn't sound like a quiet fart.
Who makes the quietest fart reducer? I have a TKO stage V but am wondering if anyone makes anything near as quite as this.
having only tried a TKO, i can't say for sure, but I no need for anything beyond this one.
there are many fart reducer makers around
how quiet depends on your power levels
at 38fpe the tko didnt do the job that some others did!
Right now I have a 1377 but am thinking of getting another air gun, either rifle or another pistol. Have been told that they do not make a fart reducer for rifles/stingers. Using for tree rats and paper punching.