Author Topic: New Idea for hammer/striker  (Read 2260 times)

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Offline woody67

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New Idea for hammer/striker
« on: March 26, 2013, 02:00:08 PM »
I started to put this idea in the recent thread about the p-rod grip frame and hammers, but it started to get a lot more complex the more I thought about it, so I decided to start a new thread just for it. I think this idea will actually be possible, but it will need some real mechanical,  machining, etc skills to accomplish.

Here's the idea:

What if we got rid of the hammer and the spring, and instead designed a mechanical piston  to strike the valve stem?
         I don't know much about it, but maybe a nitrogen piston?

It could be pulled back/cocked with the bolt handle just like the hammer is

It would have the same exact delivery every time you pulled the trigger. There wouldn't be the 'uncoiling' of a spring which might be different each time (i don't know if it is or not).

It (conceptually) could eliminate the forward 'thud' you get when you pull the trigger and the hammer slams forward.


The piston/striker would be connected to the trigger just like the hammer is....only when you pull the trigger a hammer doesn't fly down the tube and hit the valve stem. Instead, the piston directs a straight, consistent punch directly to the face of the valve stem. If it was practical, the piston could be adjustable for how fast/hard it hits the valve stem, and even for how fast it retracts from the valve stem.

I have a general image of this in my head, but not the full concept of how to make it fit and operate. If it can be done, it could really add some consistency and possibly aid in accuracy. To me the hammer seems a bit basic...



Offline woody67

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 02:03:47 PM »
More ideas flowing for this....

Instead of the piston 'striking' the valve stem, maybe it could be designed to always be in contact with the valve stem, and when you pull the trigger it would be just a rapid 'push' and release on the valve stem.

It would have to be very fast of course, but if you had a very strong spring in the valve, and a very strong and very fast piston pushing the valve stem with an immediate full neutral release of the piston once it was fully depressed. The strong spring would blast the valve stem back in place, and would seal itself immediately and save from wasting valuable air...

Offline JMJinNC

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 03:03:33 PM »
Interesting ideas, but probably the most efficient way to release a lot of energy quickly is by releasing a coiled steel or gas spring. The shot-to-shot energy of a coil spring is going to be very consistent. A gas spring will only add weight and size.

Gas springs are popular in springers because you can leave them cocked for hours and you eliminate the torsion effect of uncoiling a very long spring.

The gap between the valve stem and the hammer is required so the hammer can build up speed (kinetic energy) unrestricted to deliver that short impact pulse to the valve.

You could do it with a cam actuated by a torsion spring, but you'd probably induce a muzzle-lifting reaction force in the pistol. If you had 2 cams rotating simultaneously in opposite directions to negate the reaction force (Whiscombe rifles use this principle on their mainsprings ), you'd be all set.

The forward impact of the hammer is almost in line with the barrel, so the reaction consequences are minimized.

JMJ
John

Offline 1377x

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 07:06:03 PM »
if we could fit an actuator in place of the hammer and spring that would be the way to go. but with these valves some sort of striker is necessary, since the are knock open
Lloyd sikes did something like that and helped create the benji rouge.if anyone can come up with a system it will be him
 I have him working on my guns.he made my old oogie boogie build happen
this man is the mad scientist of air guns.if you have anyone work on your pcps this is the man.he is the only on I have working on mine
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrog4oOZ4kM#].510 cal airgun "4x4" .50 caliber air rifle bigbore pcp power[/url]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgho2W7i5ak#ws]Crosman Interviews Lloyd Sikes[/url]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 07:07:35 PM by 1377x »
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Offline woody67

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 07:20:16 PM »
Awesome!

Anyone need to shoot an elephant??

Offline quickster47 †

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 08:47:40 PM »
I have heard two different camps on the Rogue.  One is that they have a surplus that will last for 5 years.  The other is from Crosman that says they can't keep them in stock.

I don't know of anyone who has one and the only review I read was extremely negative of the whole gun.

Anyone else?

Carl

I've never wanted something so useless in my life.
In Omnia Paratus
1947-05-19 - 2016-07-14 †

Offline 1377x

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 08:53:50 PM »
you have to go to youtube
they are out there
they had stopped production to work out some bugs from the recent reviews I have seen no complaints
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2013, 07:00:57 PM »
The design of a Small mass High speed poppet striker is nothing new.
Match grade PCP's such as FWB's use such a mechanism.
Lock time is VERY LOW and nearly soon as trigger sear trips, striker has fell  & popped open the valve and pellets gone !

* Within my FWB P70 FT ....
Total striker travel at most @ 3/8" ... Diameter of striker maybe 5/16" x 1 1/2" long driven by a relatively heavy gauge spring.
* Because the striker mass is so little and spring force driving it quite high.
 Strikers speed once released by sear is SO FAST it opens valve in milliseconds !!   

Most likely the spring holding poppet closed is equally high pressure sprung to counter the strikers heavy spring rate.
Resulting BURP of air is of VERY low dwell so efficiency remains high.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 07:02:45 PM by Motorhead »
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Offline 1377x

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Re: New Idea for hammer/striker
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 07:36:19 PM »
that sounds interesting now to make it new to the crosman pistols
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