Author Topic: Vigilante Mods  (Read 1914 times)

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Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2017, 07:58:34 PM »
The stock for the Vigilante carbine is moving right along. I was wondering how to deal with the awkward installing and uninstalling of the stock to change the powerlet. I finally decided to do some more milling and carving to make an opening for the powerlet to just drop in through one of the grips. It's still a crude affair, but the scheme works well. The stock can now be installed somewhat permanently with some recessed machine screws. I'll make a cover for the powerlet slot and secure it with a couple of small NIB magnets that will stick to the powerlet cylinder.



Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2017, 08:10:43 PM »
The photo shows the Lithium-ion battery pack and the temperature controller as they will be installed in the stock. I'll make a mounting plate for these devices and do the simple wiring needed to power the heaters. This has turned out to be much easier than what I thought it would be when the original heaters were installed into the pistol frame and powered using a bench power supply.

Offline cobalt327

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2017, 08:53:20 PM »
disregard
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 08:55:10 PM by cobalt327 »

Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2017, 01:55:49 AM »
If anyone is interested in the more technical aspects of airgun ballistics there is a thread discussing the Vigilante in much greater detail here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=118339.0

Offline Multigunner

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2017, 01:07:11 PM »
I'm glad you've posted all this information.

I obtained two first variation 357 revolvers awhile back. These are the ancestors of the Vigilante revolver.

I've been planning on installing a replacement vigilante valve assembly on one of these pistols, along with the stronger mainspring to improve performance.

Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2017, 05:34:50 AM »
Thank you for your comments. I'm interested in your valve replacement/rebuild. You mention a new 'main' spring. I assume that you're talking about the spring inside the valve. I'm new to airgun mods, so please correct me if that's not what you mean.

Anyhow, if we're on the same page, I'd like to know what improvements you expect to get and how you would go about quantifying the improvement. I've done no spring mods yet on any of my Vigilantes, but look forward to any new paths that could be used to make easy improvements.

Offline Multigunner

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 08:19:22 AM »
When I spoke of the Mainspring I should probably have said the Hammer Spring.

The older 357 valves are not quite the same as the more recent version but these like almost if not all internal parts should interchange as far as fitting into the frames.
Some have already tried the newer valve in the First variation revolvers, and posted that performance was not as good as it should be because they had used the hammer spring that came with the first variation. It was suggested that the spring of the vigilante is stronger or snappier giving a stronger strike to operate the valve properly.

It could simply be that the older 357 springs have gotten a little weak with age.
I have two of the older 357 and each has a hammer spring that is a bit different in appearance from the other, though I detected no noticeable difference in strength of the springs.

The Vigilante valve seems to be an improved construction and stated velocity seems higher than I've been getting with the 357 I successfully resealed and got to working properly.
Velocity is pretty good as is but I'm sure the Vigilante does a bit better in this department.

I much prefer the classic Python type styling of the older 357, which is why I obtained two of these that externally as in nearly new condition with only the most minor wear to the original finish.

I have three freshly resealed 38T pistols , two in .177 and one in .22, these are my favorites. The 357 revolvers are less refined , both less accurate at 20 + yards and lower in velocity, but are excellent backyard plinkers. They have an advantage in being able to use the much cheaper steel BBs.
I ordered some lead BBs to see if accuracy improves.

Offline oldgearhead

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2017, 07:13:57 PM »
All interesting, and useful mods. The one that I would concentrate on is the lock-up improvement with the spot welded spacer.
Many think the 6 inch barrel is long enough. Why not offer just the lock-up mod? Or the accuracy mods including the spacer and a better 6 inch barrel?
You will find many more buyers than the 10 inch assembly...
J-B or GooGone?
Tissue test and Q-tips
JSB Exact or LUM-77?
Longer barrel?

Offline Multigunner

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2017, 09:21:22 PM »
Optional 8 inch barrels with shroud are now offered with several of the higher priced CO2 revolvers and the 357 was once offered as an 8 inch barrel target pistol.

George is likely more interested in this being a short carbine rather than a long pistol, or more precisely a pistol carbine revolver along the lines of the S&W .320 which had interchangeable pistol or rifle length barrels and detachable shoulder stock.

PS
I got a tin of GAMO lead BBs and while quality control seems non existent after weeding out the badly deformed BBs I got very good accuracy with these in my 357 and my 38T revolvers. tried them in my new Umarex Colt peacemaker with fair results but in a smooth bore they aren't accurate enough to warrant the extra expense compared to good quality steel BBs.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:26:07 PM by Multigunner »

Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2017, 09:15:11 PM »
I've been giving some thought to the idea mentioned above of offering a stripped down version of the Vigilante mods. The idea of just selling an improved latch clip and a machined barrel may indeed have a good following, but I can't see people paying for the setup, machining, and welding work necessary to make the improvements.

Any thoughts?

Offline oldgearhead

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2017, 11:00:37 PM »
Basically, its a $50 gun that is pretty accurate as it comes from the factory. Finding the best pellet for my copy plus maybe a reflex sight is about as far as I intend to go. I fixed the lock-up by simply snugging down the hinge screw. It is supposed to be tight enough to keep the barrel assembly from 'dropping' when the gun is opened.
I'm afraid its more accurate than I am.
I agree, its probably not worth it to make a silk purse out of a hog's ear. But somebody probably said that about the 1377..
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:12:42 PM by oldgearhead »
J-B or GooGone?
Tissue test and Q-tips
JSB Exact or LUM-77?
Longer barrel?

Offline Rualert

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2017, 03:50:34 AM »
     I would be interested in the additional details of the accuracy mods and especially the barrel machining as the 4-H club has 2 of these for training the kids to shoot modified Camp Perry style matches, and the accuracy even with good to very good pellets is less than stellar. Remember I'm also comparing the accuracy to a high end Air Arms competition pistol, and a nice Walther Competition pistol, so there is going to be a huge gap there. I may still end up with a couple of Twin Masters, which were the only high end repeaters for  this type of shooting, but I don't know when that may happen, so why not use my lathe and the skills I have picked up making my own bits and pieces to try improving these for the kids. They might not notice, but I will, and I'm the coach!

 :-*

Casey

Offline George Schmermund

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2017, 09:12:42 PM »
I've been experimenting with various approaches to doing muzzle crowns. I've found that cutting and polishing compound facets seems to greatly reduce the number of fliers.  I'm using a Temo 4mm green rubber burr to both cut and polish the facets. The Dremel motor is held in the tool holder and rotates at ~ 20,000 RPM while the lathe chuck turns at 1000 RPM. This keeps the facets concentric with the bore. The Dremel can be adjusted to any chosen angle. The facets are cut deeper than is customary. At this point it appears that the increased depth helps the knurled choke to be more effective. There's plenty of room for speculation at this point. I'll just put out the information as it accumulates.

The results of various muzzle treatments will eventually be evaluated using schlieren photography when it gets its day on the test bench. The use of several short barrels with different muzzle treatments will be used for these tests. Details of the work can be found here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=118339.0 There's a lot of info compressed into 1 thread, so I'd recommend that you log onto the site and just skim the images on each page until you find something interesting about the machining methods and their results.

Here is a photo of a muzzle after machining. The barrel has been given the lathe and Dremel treatment.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:27:19 PM by George Schmermund »

Offline mudduck48

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2017, 02:09:37 AM »
Looks great, now let's see some holes in the target. ;)
We need to keep going and have fun doing it.

Offline Multigunner

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Re: Vigilante Mods
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2017, 03:09:21 AM »
Before obtaining a pellet firing version of the Umarex Peacemaker I found a NOS 357 barrel still in the wrap at a reasonable price and ordered it thinking of using it to convert my BB version to use pellets. That's not a priority now since I'm considering converting that gun to .22 pellets instead. In any case my pellet peacemaker is all I need.

I'll be installing the NOS barrel on one of my 357 revolvers to see if its more accurate than with the well used and probably worn rifled barrels that are now on them.
I've found mine handle pellets best when using the supposedly BB only six round cylinders/clips. I think the six rounders index more securely.

A few people have converted the 357 to .22 with mixed results. The valve body of the 357 may be too small to deliver enough gas for a respectable velocity. I'm fairly sure it could be modified to deliver around 300 FPS with a bit of work.
The transfer bar lock work of the Vigilante/357/ and late model 38T has a somewhat lighter hammer and the bar absorbs some of the hammer strike as well. When I replaced a broken late model 38T hammer with the longer nosed old model, after removing the transfer bar of course, I found velocity greatly increased.
Perhaps a heavier hammer and no transfer bar would improve velocity of the Vigilante/357 type pistols, or allow good velocity with heavier pellets like the 10.5 GAMO which works fine in my Umarex Peacemaker, and even better in my modified 38T.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 03:10:23 AM by Multigunner »