Greetings ...
For reasons that are way too complicated to explain easily, a very good friend is wanting to find a red dot sight to use on a pistol. The type of mount doesn't matter, as we can work that out. But, the size of the dot does matter. He has tried several lower priced sights and the dot is as big as a barn ... obviously meant for rifles and shooting at longer distances. Does anyone have a source for what might be called "the smallest dot there is" or at least a red dot that is made for close up, short distances? Is there any chance that there might be such a thing as an adjustable dot?
Washbush: Go here for the best list and set of reviews I have found on "dot sights. It includes Holographics too. http://www.opticsplanet.com/reviews/reviews-red-dot-scopes.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/reviews/reviews-red-dot-scopes.html)
Unfortunately, the very best, tactical sights cost about 4 times the cost of a stock 2240 pistol! :D
I've learned to use my BSA sights, abberations and all :-*
Quote from: BDS on August 27, 2012, 08:32:12 PM
Unfortunately, the very best, tactical sights cost about 4 times the cost of a stock 2240 pistol! :D
I've learned to use my BSA sights, abberations and all :-*
x2. Cost for a top level EOTech, Aimpoint, C-More will start around $300+.
Sorry, I forgot to ask ... Has anyone ever heard of a sight with no magnification, like a red dot, but that has cross hairs instead of the red dot? Does anyone know of anything like that?
Yes, go to the link I gave you, there are several, some even have 3 or 4 selectable images or cross-hairs.
PS and if you mean a 1x optic more like a scope, those are most often found in the pistol-scopes section of websites or stores and even under crossbow optics.
I put on a Bushnell red dot on my 1322 and it works fine, even when the pistol is held at arms length. It has no way to adjust the size of the dot - I think if you made it smaller it would be invisible. It has brightness settings 1 to 11, I just put it on 11 all the time (there ought to be a 12 and 13 if you ask me - "these go to 11" - haw haw).
It does take a bit of hunting when trying to view the red dot but after a while you learn how to point the gun to see the red dot fast.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/marc780/51uQQE6OQyL_AA300_.jpg)
It is very similar to iron sights except there are only two things to line up (dot and target) not 3.
It is a bushnell trophy TRS-25 from amazon. Cost me $62 all.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/marc780/41aLtjFdxmL_SL500_AA300_.jpg)
The Bushnell fits regular weaver mounts. I had to use the 11mm dovetail-to-weaver adapter mount from Amazon, it costs about $15.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/marc780/After_grips2.jpg)
Both of these offer a small 3 MOA dot and other reticles including one with crosshairs. I use the sure shot on a couple of mine and they are great. These reflex sights are inexpensive and sold by a bunch of comparable budget vendors.
http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/sure-shot-black-dove-tail-sm13003b-dt (http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/sure-shot-black-dove-tail-sm13003b-dt)
http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/ultra-shot-dove-tail-sm13005-dt (http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/ultra-shot-dove-tail-sm13005-dt)
Hey All ...
Many thanks for all of the input so far. I did give that Bushnell a good serious look the other day and I may go back to that yet. I have decided that the perfect thing that I could have would be very small and light (stubby like the red dots), illuminated reticle with crosshairs and mil dot marks, and then, if there were multiple reticles besides and I could focus the dot, it would be perfect. I would not even mind some very, very low magnification, like 2X or 1.5X.
Has anyone ever seen anything like that?
j
Quote from: Washbush on August 27, 2012, 08:58:03 PM
Sorry, I forgot to ask ... Has anyone ever heard of a sight with no magnification, like a red dot, but that has cross hairs instead of the red dot? Does anyone know of anything like that?
I have the center point and like it a lot it has a crosshair plus three other reticles and one of them is a small dot.
Mike
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647)
Quote from: Crosshairs on August 28, 2012, 01:11:53 AM
I have the center point and like it a lot it has a crosshair plus three other reticles and one of them is a small dot.
Mike
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647)
Our Walmart is closing these out for $32. I didn't realize it had the cool reticle/dot. I might have to grab one.
Hey JDub ... Grab one for me too!
JW
I just checked the Walmart web site and that scope is showing there for $49.95. Would you share the address of that store?
JW
Quote from: Washbush on August 28, 2012, 05:16:04 AM
I just checked the Walmart web site and that scope is showing there for $49.95. Would you share the address of that store?
JW
Preston Rd in Frisco TX. They had two left when I was in last week. They also had 3 or 4 Tasco Red Dots for $25. This is the same Walmart that had boxes of 15 Crosman CO2 carts for $6. I say *had* because all 11 boxes they had in stock are now on my bench.
Well ... it looks like Walmart doesn't want us to be able to reach individual stores. The $49.97 price is on the Walmart web page, and I could only find maps and advertising fliers for the individual stores. So, I am guessing that this is a deal in only that one store. Too bad. I would have bought it on the spot.
Thanks for the info. By the way, my initials are JW and I have been called J.Dub all my life.
thanks again
JW
Very nice but expensive..
http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_006.htm (http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_006.htm)
Here she is mounted on my 2240 bulk fill. For the money it's a great Red Dot.
Mike 8)
That's lookin' good!
Would you take a little time and tell us about the trigger assembly? Does it work as good as it looks?
JW
Quote from: Washbush on August 28, 2012, 04:51:10 PM
That's lookin' good!
Would you take a little time and tell us about the trigger assembly? Does it work as good as it looks?
JW
Thanks ! The trigger group is from Crosmods and it works great, it's adjustable and has a nice crisp smooth pull. I really like it the only thing i don't like is it don't have a safety so this is for target shooting only.
Mike
Mike ... Does that trigger group assembly just replace the Crosman trigger frame with no mods to any other parts of the gun? It looks like the trigger group wants to have their grip, right?
JW
Quote from: Washbush on August 28, 2012, 07:04:29 PM
Mike ... Does that trigger group assembly just replace the Crosman trigger frame with no mods to any other parts of the gun? It looks like the trigger group wants to have their grip, right?
JW
Yes is bolts right on.
mike
I think I may have to look into that ...
I spent about an hour reading everything I could find on your Ultradot sight. I have decided that when I think about $200+ it seems like a lot of money. But, I also know that there are very similar sights that go up to $1500 and $2000. Now its not so expensive. I also decided that I have already wasted nearly $150 buying stuff for $35 to $50 each that just doesn't cut the mustard. So, I think it is time to clear off the shelf, unload some of the stuff I never even use any more, and convert that into something nice. If I can make this work, I'll get one. I really like what I saw and read. Sometimes it is better to drop back and punt.
JW
Quote from: Crosshairs on August 28, 2012, 01:11:53 AM
I have the center point and like it a lot it has a crosshair plus three other reticles and one of them is a small dot.
Mike
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647)
Ooooo, I like it. What is the eye relief like on it? Can you shoot through it with arms extended?
The Pyramyd Air web site says that it has "flexible eye relief".
Does anyone know what that is? It doesn't say "adjustable", it doesn't say unlimited ... it says "flexible". I guess that means it can't make up its mind.
J
Quote from: Tater on August 28, 2012, 11:25:41 PM
Ooooo, I like it. What is the eye relief like on it? Can you shoot through it with arms extended?
Yep you can shoot it pistol style no problem.
Very cool. Thank you, the "flexible" part threw me off too.
Gents ... I found out what "flexible" means in this case. With a rifle scope, your eye has to be in pretty much the exactly right spot or the image in the scope is either blurry, if you are too close, or surrounded by a big thick black ring if you are too far away. "Flexible eye relief" is something that is designed into the sights and lets the shooter see a good, clear image over a broad range of distances between his eye and the eyebell. I am thinking that the eye might be able to start looking for the target even before the gun is in a position to shoot and then, moving his head does not break the shooters ability to keep an eye on the target if he moves. I thought it was some kind of advertising malarkey trying to make something out of nothing. But, it turns out, we all want it. That's neat. They said it really helps a shooter who wears glasses, especially no line bifocals, to find his target faster as he doesn't need to move his head into the perfect spot for both the sight and the glasses in order to see.
JW
I think flexible eye relief is just another term for unlimited eye relief. You can aim a dot sight 4" from your eye or 16". That difference could be construed as being 'flexible'.
Quote from: breakfastchef on August 29, 2012, 03:49:57 AM
I think flexible eye relief is just another term for unlimited eye relief. You can aim a dot sight 4" from your eye or 16". That difference could be construed as being 'flexible'.
Yep i guess it means for rifle or pistol too.
Mike
I have an aftermath red dot on my 2250. Its the same one as the bsa dot sight but $15 cheaper and over by the paintball stuff.
i'm not sure if you already found one but this used to be my setup. (http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500/zoneofenders79/20120802_231502-1.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q500/zoneofenders79/20120802_230715.jpg)
It's the Hawke sport dot. It has 4 levels of light and it keeps centerd quite wel, i'd have to adjust the elevation a little bit every 60 shots or so.
It cost me about 35bucks. Not sure if the dot is still to large for your liking?
I liked it but i'm going back to peep sights.
Hi Gents ...
Thanks to everyone who posted here. You have given me exactly what I needed to think about. I have come to a decision as to what to get ... sort of ... and I'll tell you how my thinking went.
First of all, I am tired of cheap junk that doesn't work as advertised. I point no fingers because I went out and bought everything I have. I tried to get by on low price and good looks. It didn't work.
Second, I have already spent at least $200 in the last few years on sighting stuff. I bought 5 items with an average cost of $40+. Even though I thought they each were neat when I got them, now I don't. I suspect that as I have become a better shooter, I have passed by their abilities.
Third, I don't care about red, green or blue. One color is enough if the dot is bright, well defined, crisp and doesn't go out of shape.
Fourth, it turns out that the eye relief (More is better!), the ability to make small adjustments in elevation without a tool, AO, the ability to not go out of adjustment after being zeroed and the ability to adjust for pellet drop are more important than I though. Maybe that is because until I spent about three hours over the last week and a half studying about them. Before I didn't have much of a clue as to what some of those features did or what I would do with them. Now I know.
Fifth, and last significant point, (There are other small things (mount/no mounts, billet construction, polarizing filter included, etc.) I have had quite enough of having my sighting instrument itself prevent me from seeing the very point where I want the pellet to go. This is caused by markings in the reticle being so big as to obscure my exact aim point. If I am aiming at a 2 liter soda bottle at 10 or 15 yards, that is one thing and then dot size probably doesn't make much difference. However, I wonder why someone would buy sights for that situation anyway as any OEM open sights are plenty good enough, I think. I decided that I want to aim at a point that is no bigger than the pellet I am shooting. I want to put them all through the same hole. I can't do that if the dot for the second shot is bigger than the hole from the first shot.
The long and short of all of this is that I have learned that for what I want in a sight/scope, I need to spend $150 or more. Probably more. So, I am going to begin now to set aside money every Saturday until I have $200 set aside for my device. Then, I will adjust that as needed with a limit of $250 in total and buy something. So far, I am attracted to the Ultradot as it does everything I want, including multiple reticles and dots of different sizes.
Thanks again. Let's keep this conversation going as it just gets better and better. Can we deal with some specific sights in some detail? That would help me make up my mind since I am now planning on giving myself a nice Christmas present.
JW
quickster uses an ultradot i believe
thats the one with adjustable dot size right?
for precision shooting a scope is the best tool
red dots, reflex sights are not for precision shooting more for quick aquisition of the target at close distances
i have a tubular rd for my phase 2 1377 its a tasco pdp3 i like it
for my co pistol i want to get a reflex sight.now that crosshairs has opened my eyes to the sleek weaver adapter,i can finally get the reflex sight if i had to use one of those adapters that raises the mounting up then i would have to pass
can t wait to get these guns finished
If you are going with the red dot and are stepping up to the next level, in addition to Ultradot, search the websites for C-More, Aimpoint, and Sightmark.
You might want to check out Primary Arms. They sell an Aimpoint knock-off that has a very small dot (2 MOA). It has multiple reticles, but you can't adjust the size of the dot. I use one on my AR-15 powder burner. It's not as good as a real Aimpoint, but for $99 it's worth it, well, at least until I decide to cough up the money for a real EOTech holosight.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_MultiReticle_Red_Dot_Sight_PAM3M_p/pam3m.htm (https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_MultiReticle_Red_Dot_Sight_PAM3M_p/pam3m.htm)
Roger
1377C x2
2100
Titan GP
those magnifiers are a neat tool.
Anybody have experience with one of these? I have the option to buy one cheap, or better said cheaper.
(http://www.yankeeonline.nl/_UPLOAD/PRODUCTS/DIVERSEN/DOCTER_SIGHT_III.JPG)
I have used 1"Tasco Propoint and Bushnell Trophy on my pistols because I couldn't afford an Ultradot. I'd look at something like a Bushnell TRS with 3moa dot, or clone, if doing it again.
The 'Docter' seems a good clone of the ultra-expensive reflex sights. Others are around. JPoint has a good reputation with heavy handgun shooters, more expensive. If you can use one and get one that fits, seems more suited to a pistol.
3moa dot maximum size I think.
Remember you gotta get one that fits 3/8" airgun or ".22" dovetail.
Be well...
Quote from: Washbush on August 30, 2012, 06:09:28 PM
Hi Gents ...
Thanks to everyone who posted here. You have given me exactly what I needed to think about. I have come to a decision as to what to get ... sort of ... and I'll tell you how my thinking went.
First of all, I am tired of cheap junk that doesn't work as advertised. I point no fingers because I went out and bought everything I have. I tried to get by on low price and good looks. It didn't work.
Second, I have already spent at least $200 in the last few years on sighting stuff. I bought 5 items with an average cost of $40+. Even though I thought they each were neat when I got them, now I don't. I suspect that as I have become a better shooter, I have passed by their abilities.
Third, I don't care about red, green or blue. One color is enough if the dot is bright, well defined, crisp and doesn't go out of shape.
Fourth, it turns out that the eye relief (More is better!), the ability to make small adjustments in elevation without a tool, AO, the ability to not go out of adjustment after being zeroed and the ability to adjust for pellet drop are more important than I though. Maybe that is because until I spent about three hours over the last week and a half studying about them. Before I didn't have much of a clue as to what some of those features did or what I would do with them. Now I know.
Fifth, and last significant point, (There are other small things (mount/no mounts, billet construction, polarizing filter included, etc.) I have had quite enough of having my sighting instrument itself prevent me from seeing the very point where I want the pellet to go. This is caused by markings in the reticle being so big as to obscure my exact aim point. If I am aiming at a 2 liter soda bottle at 10 or 15 yards, that is one thing and then dot size probably doesn't make much difference. However, I wonder why someone would buy sights for that situation anyway as any OEM open sights are plenty good enough, I think. I decided that I want to aim at a point that is no bigger than the pellet I am shooting. I want to put them all through the same hole. I can't do that if the dot for the second shot is bigger than the hole from the first shot.
The long and short of all of this is that I have learned that for what I want in a sight/scope, I need to spend $150 or more. Probably more. So, I am going to begin now to set aside money every Saturday until I have $200 set aside for my device. Then, I will adjust that as needed with a limit of $250 in total and buy something. So far, I am attracted to the Ultradot as it does everything I want, including multiple reticles and dots of different sizes.
Thanks again. Let's keep this conversation going as it just gets better and better. Can we deal with some specific sights in some detail? That would help me make up my mind since I am now planning on giving myself a nice Christmas present.
JW
Hi have you gotten 1 already and how is it? I too would like to get 1 but of a different model to replace the Burris F2 sitting on top of my CZ VZ58..Gonna move this 1 and put it on my Lothar barreled 2400kt..Moreover it does not look right as it's too small and I doubt it will be able handle full auto..Don't be surprised gents this is the Philippines and when it comes to personal firearms we are not that far behind.
I want to get this one instead of an Eo or an Aimpoint.
http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm (http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img268/843/1004325q.jpg)
Let me throw another option into the mix. I recently picked up a used Millett SP-1 dot sight and mounted it on my 2300KT. I did a test target with the Millett and a 2x Barska scope at 10M. Both sights shot with the same accuracy. Lots of variables could have skewed the test, but with the occassional shooter-inspired fliers, it was a dead heat.
Quote from: crossliner on September 15, 2012, 03:25:52 PM
Hi have you gotten 1 already and how is it? I too would like to get 1 but of a different model to replace the Burris F2 sitting on top of my CZ VZ58..Gonna move this 1 and put it on my Lothar barreled 2400kt..Moreover it does not look right as it's too small and I doubt it will be able handle full auto..Don't be surprised gents this is the Philippines and when it comes to personal firearms we are not that far behind.
I want to get this one instead of an Eo or an Aimpoint.
http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm (http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img268/843/1004325q.jpg)
wow full auto
if only it didnt cost a minimum od $10K to get into one legally here
Off topics gents..That is the funny thing Mr. 13..Here in the Phils. full autos are not really limited to law enforcement only. You can even buy armour-piercing rounds from a gunstore. There is always a special arrangement. Got the VZ58 for an all-in very discounted price about 2 years and a half years ago. Powder burners do not enamor me though. They are just there by virtue of timing and opportunity but show me a nice looking airgun and I go gaga 8)
http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,5003.15.html (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,5003.15.html)
Quote from: breakfastchef on September 15, 2012, 04:12:11 PM
Let me throw another option into the mix. I recently picked up a used Millett SP-1 dot sight and mounted it on my 2300KT. I did a test target with the Millett and a 2x Barska scope at 10M. Both sights shot with the same accuracy. Lots of variables could have skewed the test, but with the occassional shooter-inspired fliers, it was a dead heat.
Hello Mr. BFC..I remember seeing this particular adapter atop your pistol..Would you be kind enough to measure the lower section that clamps to the breech? The link says that the length is 3.94" but is it the overall length? This adapter is available in the Phils. for $38 btw but the seller is kind of "duh" to supply the exact dimensions.. Frankly my preference is BKL but no there is none to be found here. I want to get this cheap UTG to test the VZ58-installed Burris F2 and see if it mates well w/ my 2400KT..Actually I have not fired the Czech gun post installation. I am not too sure if it will be able to handle the recoil/heat albeit it handles much better than heftier AK. Kindly advise. Thanks in advance.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401;jsessionid=BB708B9A976C9BF70D508A09D81884D8.app02 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401;jsessionid=BB708B9A976C9BF70D508A09D81884D8.app02)
Quote from: Crosshairs on August 28, 2012, 01:11:53 AM
I have the center point and like it a lot it has a crosshair plus three other reticles and one of them is a small dot.
Mike
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/CenterPoint_1x25mm_Multi_TAC_Quick_Aim_Sight_Weaver_Style_Rings/3647)
I have one o' these too on my 2300kt and it's not a bad 'red/green dot'.... theres a single dot, 3 vertical dot, a 'T' dot, and the one Mike showed as choices in the switch for it....the dots are definitely smaller and it's better quality than my tasco pro point....
Quote from: crossliner on September 16, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Hello Mr. BFC..I remember seeing this particular adapter atop your pistol..Would you be kind enough to measure the lower section that clamps to the breech? The link says that the length is 3.94" but is it the overall length? This adapter is available in the Phils. for $38 btw but the seller is kind of "duh" to supply the exact dimensions.. Frankly my preference is BKL but no there is none to be found here. I want to get this cheap UTG to test the VZ58-installed Burris F2 and see if it mates well w/ my 2400KT..Actually I have not fired the Czech gun post installation. I am not too sure if it will be able to handle the recoil/heat albeit it handles much better than heftier AK. Kindly advise. Thanks in advance.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401;jsessionid=BB708B9A976C9BF70D508A09D81884D8.app02 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401;jsessionid=BB708B9A976C9BF70D508A09D81884D8.app02)
Gents who have one kindly chime in. Thanks and best regards.
Quote from: crossliner on September 16, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
The link says that the length is 3.94" but is it the overall length?
This one is 3.94" overall. I use this on a 2240
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Vertical_Scope_Stop_Pin/2401)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/kiteandcamera/Crosman2240Right.jpg)
This is the adapter I am using for the 2300KT pictured above. It is 3.55" overall in length.
http://www.amazon.com/Truglo-Mounting-Adapter-Weaver-Black/dp/B000KKETHA (http://www.amazon.com/Truglo-Mounting-Adapter-Weaver-Black/dp/B000KKETHA)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/kiteandcamera/StayStill.jpg)
Alrighty it does fit w/o the clamp surpassing the breech's tip..Is the TruGlo better in finish? Thanks aplenty Mr. BFC..
Quote from: crossliner on September 16, 2012, 04:27:50 PM
Alrighty it does fit w/o the clamp surpassing the breech's tip..Is the TruGlo better in finish? Thanks aplenty Mr. BFC..
The Tru-Glo adapter has a glossier sheen than the UTG.
Thank you.