Ok, I have my 1377 all set up and at a point where I am ready for the scope. The red dot I have been using needs to be returned to the gun I stole it off of. It is a 177cal pumper, but I will soon have a 22 as well that will require optics of some sort.
I was originally looking at the bug buster, it has the zoom range I would like 3~9 and AO. The only issue I have with it is the complaints out there about fat reticle milldots. What I have seen it is about two times what my centerpoint mildot has for the fine lines. For distance shots this would obliterate the view on some targets, like HOSP. It is looking like all leapers ilum reticles are the same fat style. This is something I have been irritated with is getting an idea of what you see in the bloody scope. So many manu show some goofy graphic or show nothing at all. Makes it really hard to decide on a product or compare them.
Now for one of these guns is it really needed to have the AO? Asking since I see many of these modded guns with scopes with now AO adjustment.
Intended shooting would be as close as 20~25ft. Mostly I will be target shooting but also doing some phone line clearing. I was looking at the bug buster mostly due to it's ability to focus down. I am sure a 5yd~inf would do since my trail NP's centerline works under the 6x or so indoors. I do not really care about length of the scope.
What Im looking for is a 3X~anything above 9X. A decent eye relief. Lowish near distance focus. illuminated reticle (will be rat plinking as well) Thin reticle. Something that isn't going to cost more than the gun. IE no 100$+ scopes.
SO what features and brands do all of you recommend? and why?
BugBuster would be a great choice for your gun.
Carl
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Buster-3-9X32-Compact-Combat/dp/B0021TOPPY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1307624397&sr=8-5 (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Buster-3-9X32-Compact-Combat/dp/B0021TOPPY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1307624397&sr=8-5)
Quote from: quickster47 on June 09, 2011, 03:00:41 PM
BugBuster would be a great choice for your gun.
Carl
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Buster-3-9X32-Compact-Combat/dp/B0021TOPPY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1307624397&sr=8-5 (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Buster-3-9X32-Compact-Combat/dp/B0021TOPPY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1307624397&sr=8-5)
Problem is the fat reticle. With what I have seen via videos and the amounts of complaints I think it would annoy me as well. Good price on it though. Been watching the 1377s yoyo there all week. $44~56~54~53~48
the bugbuster is a decent scope for the money --- if really serious about target shooting it might not be the best option.if casual target work then it would be fine --- the 4-16x40 IR AO centerpoint from walmart is a option for under 80 US dollars --- it has better eye relief than the bugbuster and a much thinner mil-dot reticle .
I will likely use this for shooting erasers, and other small things at distance and lots of paper. SO a finer reticle the better. I have looked at a few 120$ scopes and am wavering on those. Mostly due to not finding any views of the reticles. I was looking at the swat scopes from utg/leapers the 30mm tubes but cannot get any judgement on the reticles.
it would really help if they would list some measurement for the reticle thickness and mill dai.
How good is the optics on that wallyworld centerpoint? The one that came with my trail NP has a tonne of pincusion in it. I think that is one of the ones I had eyeballed at PA. oh gues not heh PA seems to have pulled it and a few others from the site.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/CenterPoint-4-16x40mm-Scope/10248654 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/CenterPoint-4-16x40mm-Scope/10248654)
http://www.amazon.com/Centerpoint-Optics-Adventure-4-16x40-Shooting/dp/B001PO5QOK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1307667516&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Centerpoint-Optics-Adventure-4-16x40-Shooting/dp/B001PO5QOK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1307667516&sr=8-2)
yeah, lots of wingeing.
for the price of the scope and the features it has they ar epretty decent scopes. the optics aren't great but they are clear --- i have a famous maker scope3-9x26 (crappy optics --- kinda like high end plastic for glass)a daisy 3-9x32(very good for 30 US dollars --- parallax is an issue for me with this scope though )2 CPs (very good for the money spent) and a tasco which has excellent glass
If you have a Gander Mountain or an Academy Sports anywhere near you, it might be worth the trip as they have scopes out that you can pick up and look though. Gander has them mounted on rifle stocks! Not saying you have to buy there, but it sure is a good way to learn what exactly you want :-*
Rich
I have a leapers 2-7x32 on my 1322, and it works great for close and semi-long range. plus the longer eye relief is nice. optics are nice and clear. (nothing like a leupold or anything) but still a very decent scope, especially for the price paid. The reticle hasn't seemed thick to me at all, unless the illumination is turned all the way up, but i dont really use that anyway. It seems like a lot of people prefer fixed objective scopes for hunting and ao on target/plinking guns. I like Ao on all my guns though, no matter the desired use. The only gun I have a fixed objective on is my marlin .22 rimfire lol. I have been very happy with it so far. It has been a very nice and accurate scope. Leapers makes good quality scopes for the price.
J.Austin
Quote from: arkmaker on June 10, 2011, 03:06:36 PM
If you have a Gander Mountain or an Academy Sports anywhere near you, it might be worth the trip as they have scopes out that you can pick up and look though. Gander has them mounted on rifle stocks! Not saying you have to buy there, but it sure is a good way to learn what exactly you want :-*
Rich
Never heard of any of those. About all I got is big 5 and if I drive out far enough I might find a wallmart or sports auth with scopes. At wally all the sub 200$+ ones are in blister packs. Sports auth often have 1 or 2 low quality scopes.
Got some gun stores but it is all tacticool fake holodots or so so quality stuff to the high dollar wannabe sniper stuff that starts at $500. Seems everyone around here wants a pistol to blow ppl away with or AR stuff full of green lazorz or high power flashlights.
An example of what I would find acceptable is the reticle in the centerpoint I got with my trail NP. (not sure if that helps.) Only complaint is it does lack in the mildot area. Only 3 per side of the cross, and they are more like dashes. Only twice have I needed more "dots" due to wind and distance.
I might just go for that one at wallyworld. Just have it site to stored, then if I hate it it can go back. Though 3$ more and I can get the one in a box with some screwy bipod stick thing vs clam packed kicked about in store.
And yeah, the IR I would likely only use the lowest settings at night or near dusk. Daytime or indoors it would be off.
centerpoint 4-16x40 mol-dot reticle (http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq93/JUSTJOHNY/odd%20ball/Picture213.jpg)
ah cool I didn't even think of shooting a example of the trail scope. I like what Im seeing there. Probably order this evening or Monday morning.
Here is the trail NP's reticle for the heck of it.
that CP 4-16x40 is a darn good scope. I own both of those scopes above (and a trail np for that matter lol) both are pretty good, but the 4-16 one is really a great scope for the price. you can't go wrong there..
J.Austin
I have to agree with Eric, and Josh on the CP 4-16X40 AO IR from Wally World. I have two, one on my 2250 XT HPA gun, and the other on my Talon. I can consistently shoot 10 under a dime at 25 yards all day, and at longer distances, I actually use the AO to help judge the actual range, and then count the proper number of mildots. Like they both stated, you really can't go wrong with that one, only thing I would add to it would be a sunshade, not sure if Pyramid, or Cheaper than Dirt has them, but I will be picking up two for mine. Only reason, when shooting into the sun, not directly obviously, there is a bit of glare, but otherwise, just a very good scope, for not a lot of cash. Little heavier than some higher priced units, but meets all your criteria.
Just my 2 cents, and ramblings,
Casey
I have been very happy with my Leapers 3x9 32AO on my IZH-46M
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu232/omalon/IMG_3068.jpg)
Quote from: Rualert on June 10, 2011, 07:10:20 PM
I have to agree with Eric, and Josh on the CP 4-16X40 AO IR from Wally World. I have two, one on my 2250 XT HPA gun, and the other on my Talon. I can consistently shoot 10 under a dime at 25 yards all day, and at longer distances, I actually use the AO to help judge the actual range, and then count the proper number of mildots. Like they both stated, you really can't go wrong with that one, only thing I would add to it would be a sunshade, not sure if Pyramid, or Cheaper than Dirt has them, but I will be picking up two for mine. Only reason, when shooting into the sun, not directly obviously, there is a bit of glare, but otherwise, just a very good scope, for not a lot of cash. Little heavier than some higher priced units, but meets all your criteria.
Just my 2 cents, and ramblings,
Casey
They sell a 3" shade for it, sold out atm, not sure if PA has them. If these follow photographic optics any 40mm ring should screw on. Really tempted to see if I can get nd filters and a circular polarizer for these things. Protect the main lens and have some control of glare.
http://centerpoint.crosman.com/accessories/CPA416SUN (http://centerpoint.crosman.com/accessories/CPA416SUN)
different manufacturers will use different thread pitches so one probably won't be compatible with another.
As eric mentioned, this is one of thee least compatible areas in scopes. Everyone appears to use their own thread standard.
Carl
That kinda bites. EXP since centerpoint is sold out on the sunshade. WHen shooting at night I get some nasty glare off of lights in the area. Though the centerpoint I have from my trail looks to have the same pitch as my photography stuff. Seems leapers though they offer them in manuals or product inserts they do not have anything online either.
Anyhow I have decided on that centerpoint. However not from wallyworld. It would cost just as much after tax to do a site to store. VS having it shipped to me without the drive.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PO5QOK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PO5QOK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
I also decided to get this too:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BONFGI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BONFGI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
20$ for a indoor scope. . . figure if it sucks I can throw it out or give it to someone for their airsoft. GOing with this over a red dot since the latter would sost 2 to 3 times more for a ugly 4moa dot.
I gotta get rings since the larger scope is weaver
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001WJ4TKK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001WJ4TKK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
hopefully these will do. Height is a concern. Double screws all over is probably overkill but I refused to get a set with stamped metal clamps.
Also ordering that UTC weaver adapter thing for the HB17 (barrel clamp doves) and later on for possible use on the 1322 I plan to build. Just in case I have issues with the tippman stock height I am thinking about using on it vs the crosman stock. Guess I could to a technical thread with that build starting with the ever popular photoshop image :D
Anyhow thanks for the help everyone. I was just so overwhelmed with all the brands Barska, NcStar, (knockoffs?) Nikon, tasco etc.
The whole Leapers/utg and centerpoint thing is ??? as well. Since I have seen what appears to be exact clones but some small spcs are off but stuff like zoom rings diopter etc are exact. Even a few images of the reticles are similar.
I went with this one, but adjusted for 100 yards, not 35. Thought was to use it on my Marlin 22, but I can get a pretty clear focus at 10 yards.
Rich
I have a Leapers bug buster on my 1377. It's the 5th Gen 4x32AO (I know nothing about the 3-9 version or if the reticle is the same). I paid around 50 bucks for it and I have zero complaints. I never thought the mil dots were fat. I've taken out quite a few pests without any problems, but I'm not a target shooter so I can't chime in there. Nickel sized groups at 30 feet is good enough for me. The brass turrets are pretty nice. Plus, it's cool that you get two colors with the reticle light. That wasn't a decision maker for me because I never use it, but it's fun to show it off to people. I like it so much I might buy one for my .22 rimfire this fall. Not to ham it up too much, but it's more fun and versatile than any of the scopes I own for my firearms. But again, I'm not much of a target shooter other than for zeroing purposes and hunting practice.
X2 Bugbuster! ;) ...but I have the 3-9 version. It's the best scope I've bought and cheaper than some of them.
The parallax adjustment is a HUMONGOUS plus with my tiny home range (5m). :-*
the bugbuster is a decent scope for the money fer shur --- may not be the best for target work but it will get the job done
I'm considering the Bug Buster as well. Will probably go with the 6x version. Will be using it on a planned 1325 carbine for hunting primarily.
My bugbuster is great especially if you don't have a long range to shoot down (which was my main reason for choosing this lil'puppy).
Parallax adjustment = 8)
I went with that centerpoint. the 6ft difference in AO was a bit moot. (5yds vs 3yds) I wouldn't need a scope anything closer or Id get bored. Mostly it was eye relief in the end. Though I did have a go at flies the other day. Dead rat in one of my traps was bringing them in. Kinda fun and likely have me get one for messing about on a a purely pistol or short short carbine.
http://www.mac1airgun.com/images/Mvc-026s.JPG (http://www.mac1airgun.com/images/Mvc-026s.JPG)
shows how I was shooting with the peep and red dot before I got the stock and barrel to carbine my current pc77. I think something like this would be great fun for fly detonation or super small short range shooting.
THOUGH I hear the 4X fixed unit has better optics. I found an image that Tom Gaylord did on PA's site and the reticle looks different from what I have seen on videos (g2 vs g5 I think or 3X9 vs 4X)
Good greif that scope is up to $98 now. O_o hate that place because of this. Have not ordered my 1377 for the 1322 conversion yet cause they jacked the price up. Wow they jacked the prices up on everything, weaver adapter is up to 9$ as well as the rings I got for the 11mm dove.
I plan to photo the reticles on my scopes and start a thread with the hope others will post scope info and images to help other decide. For me the biggest issue was seeing what was in the reticle. The graphics most manufacturers use are not at all representative of the real reticle. If they give an image at all. Good example is how Leapers uses nearly the same graphics for all of their scopes when it is easily found even within the same family of scope the reticles are different.
Got my scopes today. The pc77 is a tack driver now, mostly cause I can see the target lol. I am consistently stacking the pellets at 10~12 yards. The scope is so sensitive just the 8 ft further down my kitchen makes me alter the AO on the scope to bring things into focus. I ended up putting the cheapo 4X35 scope on my Trail NP mostly cause I found it was a bit blurry in the reticle. (eye kept focusing on the targets vs the reticle.) I figured why not anyhow. I found some intresting things with the 2 guns and differing pump counts. I will get to that in another post though.
Now my plans were to photo all the scopes so that one can compare the reticles. As expected the Leapers one was thicker, not by much but enough that it is easily spotted. A lot of things are very similar obviously same parts bins. However leapers mil dots are DOTS centerpoint are more like bars. I liked the scopes and felt the leapers was a steal even if i found it did not fit my needs as much as I hoped. Maybe when I get a new prescription for my glasses and can SEE again. hah. I still think the leapers will fill a plinking role more than a shoot the dot game. Say cans at 50 yards. Off track a bit there, long day. Anyhow as I said I had these plans and all but once I started shooting them I found I had to keep altering zoom to 1 focus the reticle and 2 to fill the camera's screen. So it isnt a real objective apples to apples. Since each image is at a different zoom level. I will still post the images with stats. But it does seem to be a bit of a failure to compare the relative sizes. What it will do is give people an idea what to expect in the layout and look of the reticle.
I also found the threaded ends for shades and filters vary in dai not thread count. So far these appear to be the same just not photographic on sizing or standards. EG the 2 40mm scopes both have 2 different dai to the threads. My trail scope has a removable ring the new centerpoint does not, the threads are exposed. And smaller in dai. Disappointing. The leapers has a sunshade thread but it is inset into the scope and well I have not found parts for leapers scopes.
Oh, the rings I noticed they had some sort of fiber or ribbon glued inside. Seems they are starting to look at scope slip for springers and NP guns. One had a rubbery feel but was clearly woven. The centerpoint barely clears the barrel on the pc77 :D cannot use the flippy cover thing but it gets in the way of the AO anyhow.