Whats the "Best way to Cut a Barrel down", if you had these tools available...
Also re-crowning the Muzzle End (cut end).
Metal Chop-saw (Carborundum Blade)
Hacksaw
Pipe Cutters
Sawzall
And what would your procedure be? Thanks :-*
lathe the very best way to go but i did find a poor mans way and its really good.i'll see if i can dig it up.the actual tool used cant be found in stores anymore but will you an idea of what can be used as an alternative
If the barrel will fit in one of your drills, set up a poor mans lathe (PML) and use the hacksaw as it spins. If not I would use the metal chop saw and go slow to make the cleanest cut. Make sure the cut is 90deg to the bore. You will want to clean up the cut, again in the PML if possible, using files and progressive grades of wet or dry. The brass screw method of crowning works well for me, but I chuck the barrel in the lathe and slowly move the drill around as they both spin..
Post a pic or too of the crown when you're done.
I have used a hack saw in the past. Will not heat up the barrel like the chop saw will, but will also not be as square as if you used the chop saw. Use a file and square the end off after cutting and then use a button head screw in you drill with some 240 grit emery cloth to finish the crown on the bore. It'll work!!
I prefer the lathe, no doubt..
Midway has a YouTube video on how to cut and crown a barrel. They used a piece of angle iron cradling the barrel to use as a guide when filing to get the cut square. Try and find that video.
Think you mean this one?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43odFm0mrI#ws]Gunsmithing - How to Shorten and Recrown a Rifle Barrel with Hand Tools[/url]
Normally I cut them a touch long with the hack saw and finish in the lathe. If that's not an option, would do as follows;
Use the pipe cutter to make a gentle score around the circumference of the barrel where you want to end up. Cut with the hack saw leaving some to clean up with a file.
File to the line, clean things up like Larry does (sand paper on the file) and crown using the method shown by Larry.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZlG28fI#ws]Gunsmithing - How to Re-Crown the Muzzle of a Winchester Model 60 By Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA[/url]
Al
Quote from: breakfastchef on October 08, 2012, 12:14:33 AM
Midway has a YouTube video on how to cut and crown a barrel. They used a piece of angle iron cradling the barrel to use as a guide when filing to get the cut square. Try and find that video.
thats what im talking about right there.that dovetail jig is no longer available but im sure ther is an alternative.that jig is hardened thats what makes it easy to file without losing the squared edge
i have read that a button head screw can ruin your crown.is that why brass is suggested because it should be softer than the barrel steel.
i have a couple of barrels i practice on.im never happy with the crown.thinking it would cost effective to just get a crown cutter.when you are paying $30 a cut and crowned barrel after 3-5 barrels that extra money saved diy would pay for the tool.
i would thing one of those bench sander things with the disk and guise would make a nice square barrel.thats more important than the crown.your barrel will still shoot straight without a crown.the crown keeps it that way
Quote from: Gippeto on October 08, 2012, 12:22:54 AM
Think you mean this one?
That is the one, Al. Thanks for digging it up.
it doesnt take much to do a crown.i guess i have been doing to much im going to try it like the video shows
it would be nice to see before or after targets
Here is how I did mine:
I made a set of blocks to hold the barrel and then clamped the barrel in between the blocks to cut it with a hacksaw. See pics. Then chucked the barrel in my drill press and lowered the cut edge onto a piece of sandpaper as it was spinning to true it up. Forgot to take pics of that part. Also in the drill press, I de-burred the outer edge with a file and 45'd the crown with a sharpened dowel with sandpaper wrapped around it. Then I polished the crown with just the dowel and valve lapping compound still with the barrel spinning in the drill press. It shoots better than any factory barrel I have.
As always, your mileage may vary.
Cheers,
Bert,
Great stuff there. Thanks a million. gave me some good ideas. :-* :-*
I might buy the sight dovetail tool and give that a whirl too.
Keep the suggestions coming, I haven't cut anything yet. :-* :-*
Quote from: 0351_Vet on October 08, 2012, 05:55:22 PM
Bert,
Great stuff there. Thanks a million. gave me some good ideas. :-* :-*
I might buy the sight dovetail tool and give that a whirl too.
Keep the suggestions coming, I haven't cut anything yet. :-* :-*
if you can find that wheeler tool let me know if they have more
it hasnt been available for a long time.its hardened so filing wont hurt it anything else will lose the squaring if filed on and not hardened
i have scouring the net.one place i have to put a want ad will more than likely produce some results
Quote from: 1377x on October 08, 2012, 06:55:26 PM
if you can find that wheeler tool let me know if they have more
it hasnt been available for a long time.its hardened so filing wont hurt it anything else will lose the squaring if filed on and not hardened
i have scouring the net.one place i have to put a want ad will more than likely produce some results
Here you go 1377x ;) :-*
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/720537/wheeler-engineering-dovetail-cutting-fixture (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/720537/wheeler-engineering-dovetail-cutting-fixture)
$20.99 USD :-*
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n589/USMC7579/720537.jpg)
umm
like i said before let me know if you can find one i can buy
you might want to try adding to your cart then tell me if it says the same thing it tells me
This is not a dovetail fixture, but it will serve for the barrel filing under discussion.
Completely hardened and ground tool steel.
(http://www.huronindustrial.com/mm5/graphics/00000002/1-814-113.gif)
http://www.huronindustrial.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=his&Product_Code=1-814-110&Category_Code= (http://www.huronindustrial.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=his&Product_Code=1-814-110&Category_Code=)
If you want to comparison shop, google "hardened v-block".
Quote from: 1377x on October 08, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
umm
like i said before let me know if you can find one i can buy
you might want to try adding to your cart then tell me if it says the same thing it tells me
@1377x
Yeah, that's a bummer. I even pulled the trigger on it and then talk to the staff. no longer Available. ??? ;) :o :) :-*
sorry to go a little off-topic, but thanks for your new avatar, Ed. I'd forgotten I saw that before and I laughed just as hard now as I did then!
Target Crown
(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/steptargetcrown.jpg/img%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20primary%20purpose%20of%20a%20firearm%20muzzle%20crown%20is%20to%20provide%20propellant%20gases%20a%20resistance%20free%20path%20away%20from%20all%20parts%20of%20the%20projectile%20as%20it%20exits%20the%20bore%20of%20the%20barrel.%20The%20secondary%20purpose%20is%20to%20protect%20the%20bore%20from%20damage%20caused%20by%20misuse.%20The%20third%20purpose%20is%20for%20good%20looks%20which%20is%20always%20achieved%20when%20the%20primary%20purpose%20is%20satisfied.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThere%20are%20two%20basic%20types%20of%20target%20crown%20-%20the%20'step'%20and%20the%20'11%20degree'.%20The%20muzzle%20of%20the%20step%20crown%20is%20first%20cut%2090%20degrees%20of%20barrel%20(square)%20then%20about%20half%20the%20muzzle%20radius%20is%20counter%20sunk%20with%20the%20wall%20of%20the%20counter%20sink%20usually%20at%20an%20angle%20of%20about%2045%20degrees.%20The%20muzzle%20of%20the%2011%20degree%20crown%20is%20sunk%20at%20an%20angle%20of%2011%20degrees%20from%20square%20(79%20degrees%20of%20barrel).%20The%2011%20degree%20angle%20extends%20either%20the%20full%20muzzle%20radius%20or%20the%20greater%20part%20of%20muzzle%20radius.%20The%20exact%20angle%20sometimes%20varies%20a%20degree%20or%20two%20from%20eleven%20and%20is%20still%20referred%20to%20as%20being%20a%20target%20crown%20but%20through%20experimentation%20and%20time%20eleven%20degrees%20is%20normally%20accepted%20as%20the%20optimum%20universal%20angle%20for%20this%20type%20of%20target%20crown.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3Etep%20Type%20Target%20Crown%20%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttp://riflestocks.tripod.com/steptypecrown.jpg)
Picture shows a 'step' type target crown on a Green Mountain .22 caliber barrel.
Below is a description and procedure for making a step type target crown taught me by Ray Dixon, who cuts target crowns on target and varmint rifle barrels as part of his profession.
Using a lathe with steady rest and cutting tool to turn and cut the work piece, the muzzle is squared then stepped in a few hundredths of an inch. The sharp edge of the muzzle is turned off at a non-critical angle to help protect it from dings. Leaving metal above the circumference of the step (the crown) protects the crown from dings.
The step is angled down at about 45 degrees to help direct gas turbulence away from the exiting bullet.
Because gases should escape with equal resistance across the entire area of the crown, it is important that all crown surfaces be smooth and similar throughout its area. Attention to this becomes more critical as the crown approaches the bore.
Using a 60 degree piloted bit attached to the tail stock of the lathe, the sharp 90 degree edge of the bore exit is turned off at a 60 degree angle. The importance of this is to protect the bore edge from gas erosion and thereby ensure the bore exit remain smooth with no irregularities along its circumference. Great care is taken to make this cut very smooth so that it be alike along its entire surface. To aid in this the barrel is turned only by hand while making very slow advances of the tail stock, which contains the piloted bit. To help ensure the 60 degree edge be consistent in depth and bit chatter minimized this cut is kept very shallow, only about 0.020 to 0.025 inch in depth. The pilot of the bit is a diameter which matches that of the bore closely enough to keep the axis of the bit aligned with that of the bore, keeping bit chatter down and depth consistent.
Should the bore exit not be consistent about its perimeter gases escaping unevenly around the bullet base will cause bullet yaw and loss of precision.
11 Degree Target Crown
Below is detailed the tool and procedure recently used to apply an 11 degree target crown to the muzzle of a Ruger model Number 1B, caliber Springfield 30-06.
(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreecutterparts.jpg)(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreecutter.jpg)(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreecutterface.jpg)
Left - .308 caliber brass pilot, 79 degree muzzle crowning cutter, cutter handle and allen wrench for tightening pilot to cutter.
Center - the assembled tool used for cutting the 11 degree target crown.
Right - the business end of the tool.
All parts of tool were purchased from Brownells . The hex wrench did not come with the tool.
The 79 degree cutter is found through their web site index under 'CROWNING/BARREL' or 'CHAMFERING/BARREL'.
The handle for cutter and the pilot are both found under 'CHAMFERING/MUZZLE'.
Pilots are advertised for most calibers and are available in steel or brass. Brass was chosen because it is softer than the rifling lands.
Two sizes of cutter are advertised: 1/2 inch diameter and 3/4 inch diameter for small and larger barrel diameters. The cutter used here is the 3/4 inch version which works for small and larger diameter barrels. Note that using this cutter, crowning a 1 inch diameter barrel would leave a minimum of 1/8 inch radius uncut but none-the-less would yield a proper functioning 11 degree target crown.
(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/originalcrown.jpgmg%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20original%20factory%20crown%20just%20before%20cutting%20it%20to%20an%2011%20degree%20target%20crown.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EHoning%20oil%20is%20applied%20to%20cutter%20and%20muzzle%20before%20any%20cutting%20is%20performed.%20It%20is%20also%20wise%20to%20apply%20oil%20to%20pilot%20to%20reduce%20possible%20friction%20to%20rifling%20lands.%20Periodically%20cutting%20stops%20to%20clean%20metal%20shavings%20from%20muzzle,%20bore%20and%20tool.%20Honing%20oil%20is%20re-applied%20before%20cutting%20continues.%20The%20oil%20used%20here%20is%20honing%20oil%20sold%20for%20knife%20sharpening.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttp://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreecutteronmuzzle.jpg)(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreebeginningofcrown.jpg)(http://riflestocks.tripod.com/11degreecuttershavings.jpg)
L - crowning cutter with pilot inside bore, ready to start cutting.
Center - beginning of target crown after only 10 or 12 light 1/2 rotations of cutter. Care is taken to keep light and consistent downward hand pressure centered on bore so pilot does not wobble. Cutting is performed slowly and can be stopped and resumed at will but it is important to keep cutting surfaces coated with the oil and to clean metal shavings from bore, muzzle and cutter before re-inserting pilot.
Right - to keep shavings from getting between cutter face and muzzle care is taken cutter never leaves the surface of muzzle while cutting is being performed. Cutting is often stopped to clean shavings from muzzle, bore and tool and to check depth of cut.As cutting goes deeper into muzzle cutting slows because more muzzle face is contacting cutter surface. Cutting is often stopped to check for depth and to clean away shavings. The muzzle becomes very sharp where it enters the bore and ruff cutting is stopped just short of maximum barrel radius. Shown above the ruff muzzle is ready for finish cutting after about eight careful cutting sessions.
Left - finish cutting is performed with increasingly lighter pressure as cutting progresses until almost only the weight of tool is applied to the muzzle.
Center - crown after finish cutting.
Right - a thin and even amount of 00 steel wool is placed on cutter face and used to lightly burnish any microscopic burrs off muzzle crown. Care is taken to flatten the wool against the cutter face before inserting pilot into bore and it is important not to over burnish using this method because any steel fibers accidentally allowed into bore could score rifling lands.
Left - after using alcohol to degrease the muzzle OXPHO-BLUE from Brownells is used to cold blue the muzzle.
Right - Three coats of blueing agent was applied to muzzle. After each application the muzzle was wiped with dry towel and lightly polished using 0000 steel wool.
Quote from: sbcrockett on October 08, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
sorry to go a little off-topic, but thanks for your new avatar, Ed. I'd forgotten I saw that before and I laughed just as hard now as I did then!
there is a 1377x avatar thread going now as we speak
Quote from: 0351_Vet on October 08, 2012, 09:25:59 PM
@1377x
Yeah, that's a bummer. I even pulled the trigger on it and then talk to the staff. no longer Available. ??? ;) :o :) :-*
i know been trying to get something like that for a long time.tired of spending money on getting barrels cut and crowned.i mean i could have bought a lathe from just the money i spent on services not including the barrel.
now that link ysyeo posted is worth looking into
ysyeo
thanks for the link!
just what i am looking for and they accept paypal!
We need to get one of these.... :-*
(http://www.borkatools.com/pages/mcrt/images/mcrt3d.jpg)
what is that/
Quote from: 0351_Vet on October 08, 2012, 10:20:15 PM
We need to get one of these.... :-*
Bet you could make a few bucks everytime you go to the range with that tool.
ok so its a crowning tool
to get a price and availability contact owner
heres the video of the tool in use
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xpzv1Spsnk#]Precision Muzzle Crowning by Dave Manson[/url]
BERT, that's an excellent, and simple way to assure an accurate cut. Thanks! RC
Man, that is an excellent crowning tool! What's the cost? Around 500 from the looks of the video....Steep for us airgunner, but I don't think a gunsmith should be without it. Easier than a lathe!
at the end of the video it says $300-$400 depending on the pieces you get
thats about 30 barrels to break even 40 to make a profit
thats with airguns.firearms will get a higher charge for a recrown
it costs me around $15 to get a barrel cut and crowned.i have gone through more than 40 barrels.not all for myself.i have sent out a lot of barrels to people who couldnt get them usually when crosman is out and i can still get them.