what is the importance of barrel cleaning?
i have a 14".22 barrel purchased new cleaned once.
now 5000+ pellets later, just about every kind you can think of, i don't have any accuracy issues but decided to clean the barrel while i was cleaning a new barrel i have.
there was so much gunk in there i'm surprised accuracy was never an issue.now that it's clean watch me have all kinds of accuracy issues.
does anyone here have a barrel that was shooting great before cleaning and not so great after?
when i get my gun back together that's the first thing i'm going to check
did you put a couple of dry patches through to remove any excess oil in the barrel, i have to do that with all of my guns when i clean them because if i dont, for some reason they dont always shoot low like you woud expect, but to the left, right, and high. i am not entirely sure about whey this happens, but i know it is more noticeable in my crosman barrels. i must say though i am surprised that you didnt have accuracy problems with a bore that dirty, i ususaly clean my barrels after 300-400 shots
I always clean my barrels and we all know why but thats with real firearms. reason ! Heat, real guns produce much more heat in the barrel then airguns therfore lead will melt and then fill the groves in the barrels rifeling. not so with airguns could have same fps but not the heat,so it is realy dirt and some lead that you are cleaning.And thats just me thinking,i can be wrong.so to answer you question no i have never lost accuracy after cleaning my barrel.
Mike
Every tin or so I run three or four of those cleaning pellets through my guns. Also when I change pellet types I do the same thing.
But there is also that old saying that says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Carl
Quotedid you put a couple of dry patches through to remove any excess oil in the barrel
yes,i remembered reading that so i followed suit
with my firearms i keep them spic and span clean my life may depend on them.i once had a mishap from using a paper towel and a micro spec got stuck in the breech causing it to jam :-X >:( :-X(Tupperware
never had this problem with my Beretta 92fs
anyways since i had no issues with my dirty barrel ,i never bothered to clean it.
man it was filthy :o i would look down it from time to time and would see the rifling so i would say i'm good to go. my main shooting distance is @ 20yds but have taken further shots a good 50-70yards shooting 6oz paper cups. paper was laid down so i couldn't miss.
when mentioning heat and barrels causing problems,what about cold i would think some heat is created as the pellet goes down the barrel.every time i shoot my disco pistol the whole gun gets very cold that's what i was shooting out to 70yds with
there is that myth and each to his own on that ;) if after cleaning your barrel and accuracy isn't the same then you just keep shooting until it does .you have loosen the the barrel's bore and it needs to be seasoned (tightened up) again .your groups should come back but it might take some pellets to get there.
I typically won't clean any of my barrels after the initial cleaning, unless I notice a degradation in accuracy. Then I will run a couple patches through.
I find it takes roughly 50 pellets down the pipe before accuracy returns after a cleaning.
I read an article in January and posted some of the information in someones thread on here but I can't remember where! ???
Anywho, what you've asked is basicly what the article was about. The term is "Leading". And each brand of pellet will leave its own kind of 'finger print' in the barrel. It is to do with the way the pellet moves down the barrel leaving a skidmark (tee-hee) on its travels.
If you stick with one brand of pellet this skid builds up in a bespoke way to the form/shape of that particular pellet.
So after X amount of shots the barrel is 'leaded'. The accuracy inturn increases as the barrel has been broken in of sorts.
When you spotlessly clean or buy a new barrel this will start over. Also to an extent if you change pellet brands.
The article stated that a basic cleaning of the barrel will mean the leading will need redoing. After 20-30 shots you may see a more predictable shot. They estimate 30-50 shots for new/cleaned barrels.
It makes sense and I personally don't believe its a myth. Like many items in life, a device can run smoothly but if you change something it may need a wearing in period or simply doesn't seem the same and may never. It can be poor parts too. In this case the pellets quality is a factor if the brand changes or production is not controlled acutely. Or the change of barrel, it may never feel the same as another. Like two crosmans are never the same.
Woffle, woffle..... thats my Ã,£5 worth! Snooze... :-*
What about an initial "cleaning" of something like flitz with a saturated patch?
Could you not lap the barrel that way to help with the burr's and high spot's in the barrel?
You could, but only if it's not shooting well initially. I would test the barrel first by shooting some groups and see how it performs. If it's grouping well, leave it alone. If it's spraying pellets, a polishing with some flitz could possibly help. You won't know unless you try it.
I strongly advise removing the barrel from the receiver and flushing some (non chlorinated) brake cleaner through the bore. It's exactly the same chemical derivatives found in the $15.00 cans of Gun cleaner everyone pays so much for (including myself) before finding out. That will degrease and remove all the lead deposit found trapped along side the barrel rifling.
I also strongly suggest staying away from aluminum cleaning rods and cleaning attachments. I had a cleaning attachment score the hell out of my .177 barrel not to long ago. I thought the metal was softer, apparently not. beware!
The best thing on the market right now are brass brush bore snake cleaners. Brass brush bore snake cleaners that do a better job at cleaning the barrel anyways.
crown savers work well if you don't want any metal thru your barrel ;)
Quote from: eric on March 10, 2011, 10:12:15 PM
crown savers work well if you don't want any metal thru your barrel ;)
Bingo. Been using one for the last 3+ years.
You can get them from Mac1 or Airguns of Arizona for anyone interested.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/zoned_album/misc/CrownSaver.gif)
May be just the picture size or scaling but does that fit a .177 caliber barrel? It looks BIG!
Carl
Yep, fits them with room to spare! Works great.
i use weed eater wire its plastic ,doesn't seem to damage the bore
i will know if somethings amiss when i get to shoot my freshly cleaned barrel
hopefully today ill get some time to get her back together
Be careful using weed eater line. It has an abrasive impregnated in it. That's why it cuts weeds so well.
Quote from: zoned on March 11, 2011, 09:19:40 PM
Be careful using weed eater line. It has an abrasive impregnated in it. That's why it cuts weeds so well.
Nah, Really? That's what I use. Just hold a flame to the end for a second and make a ball, then you can pierce a patch or to on it and pull it through. I never felt any roughness on the plastic, but sure will take another looksie under the scope!
Rich
kinda like tri-flow ,it has teflon (a solid) in it but it feels smooth. edit to say they are less than $10.00 and come in 2 different lengths.2 and 3 feet of pull
For quite a while now, I've been using a crown saver and a patch saturated with Goo Gone (followed by untreated patches until they come out clean and dry) for cleaning all my air guns. I give each new gun a thorough cleaning, then leave it alone until I notice an accuracy problem. After these follow-up cleaning, all I notice is a return to previous accuracy levels. However, it's important for me to disclose that I am NOT highly skilled with either a rifle or pistol. I'm just a decent military-trained marksman and a dedicated plinker and hunter. My hat's off to those of you who are more highly skilled, trained, and able to notice very subtle shifts in accuracy levels due to cleaning . . .
Keep shootin' and keep smilin',
Kev
Quote from: arkmaker on March 12, 2011, 02:55:59 AM
Nah, Really? That's what I use. Just hold a flame to the end for a second and make a ball, then you can pierce a patch or to on it and pull it through. I never felt any roughness on the plastic, but sure will take another looksie under the scope!
Rich
Yeah, apparently they put it in the line to make it more durable and make it cut easier. I was in disbelief when I first heard it too. It can damage the crown if you aren't careful.
Quote from: zoned on March 11, 2011, 09:19:40 PM
Be careful using weed eater line. It has an abrasive impregnated in it. That's why it cuts weeds so well.
that's good to know
Or you can use the plastic used to string tennis racket's.
Quote from: eric on March 12, 2011, 03:20:06 AM
kinda like tri-flow ,it has teflon (a solid) in it but it feels smooth. edit to say they are less than $10.00 and come in 2 different lengths.2 and 3 feet of pull
If it is teflon, it will not hurt a steel barrel ,unless you run it in and out a few thousand times at high speed and even then....well I'd have to see it to believe it ;D
seriously, I really don't see the harm that plastic can do to a steel barrel for the dozen or so run throughs that I do every now and again. They sell kits that contain brass and aluminum rods for cleaning and I would bet that those would present a bigger potential for damage than the weedwhacker string. Heck, for that matter, some of the cleaning solutions are worse for steel corrosion. Nope, not gonna worry about plastic line.
Rich
EDIT::: Just did a search on trimmer string and found that there are all kinds of stuff I did not know about. Seems these lawn guys take this stuff seriously. Some of it is braided and some has titanium added. All of that stuff costs quite a bit more than the average stuff you find at Ace. I'm talking about the elcheap stuff. All natual nylon...no fillers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: arkmaker on March 12, 2011, 02:00:33 PM
If it is teflon, it will not hurt a steel barrel ,unless you run it in and out a few thousand times at hiigh speed and even then....well I'd have to see it to believe it ;D
seriously, I really don't see the harm that plastic can do to a steel barrel for the dozen or so run throughs that I do every now and again. They sell kits that contain brass and aluminum rods for cleaning and I would bet that those would present a bigger potential for damage than the weedwhacker string. Heck, for that matter, some of the cleaning solutions are worse for steel corrosion. Nope, not gonna worry about plastic line.
Rich
no it's not teflon in weed wacker line,could be i suppose.teflon is a solid they use in tri-flow.tri-flow feels smooth and slickerly as does weed wacker line .kinda like diamond dust in water.i think the thinking with the ww line is it could be considered something like a abrasive and if not pulled completely straight out you can/will damage the crown.rods are straight so pulling them out without touching the crown is much easier and you're not as likely to damage the crown. yeah,myths abound .folks have been using metal cleaning rods for how long and have no ill effects. i use both a crown saver and a brass rod.pick your poison ;) :)
thanks for the info
since i don't clean my barrels that often,the weed eater line will work me.it hasn't given me any problems yet(the whole 2x i used it :P ;D ;D ;D)
Heck, next time I am at Academy, I'll pick up a Crown Saver. I think they were under 10 bucks and that is a cheap price for peice of mind :-*
Better safe than sorry in this case.
Rich
Quote from: arkmaker on March 12, 2011, 04:27:45 PM
Heck, next time I am at Academy, I'll pick up a Crown Saver. I think they were under 10 bucks and that is a cheap price for peice of mind :-*
Better safe than sorry in this case.
Rich
for 10.00 i can get a whole new barrel. i guess thats why im being cheap
Quote from: 1377x on March 12, 2011, 06:25:25 PM
for 10.00 i can get a whole new barrel. i guess thats why im being cheap
I like your thinking! :)
Quote from: 1377x on March 12, 2011, 06:25:25 PM
for 10.00 i can get a whole new barrel. i guess thats why im being cheap
pray it shoots well or it might be more than a crown saver ;) :)
Quote from: eric on March 12, 2011, 07:32:20 PM
pray it shoots well or it might be more than a crown saver ;) :)
Yep, it's a crapshoot with barrels. Some shoot great groups, others like a shotgun. LOL
I do agree though, that as little as most people would clean their airgun barrels, that weed whacker line would probably be ok to use. It's just good to have all the info first.
Quote from: eric on March 12, 2011, 07:32:20 PM
pray it shoots well or it might be more than a crown saver ;) :)
since i get my barrels locally,i get to give them a good look over + the airgun smith knows what hes looking at,i havent had a barrel problem yet
fingers crossed
Quote from: 1377x on March 12, 2011, 10:06:52 PM
since i get my barrels locally,i get to give them a good look over + the airgun smith knows what hes looking at,i havent had a barrel problem yet
fingers crossed
nice
OK. It is time to clean my 1377C. I've never done it before and I don't want to take the barrel off if posssible. How do I do it on the cheap? I don't have a lot of cash. I got it new for Xmas and have put about 600 pellets through it. Thanks guys.
~Falcon
Unless your accuracy is really suffering, why bother to clean it. Just leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Carl
I used to use a 1/8" wood dowel. Hmmm... why aren't I still using it?
Got them from the hobby store. Inexpensive. No. you do not have to remove the barrel. Just make sure you don't bind up the clothe or it gets a bit much for the wood. If it happens, back it off a little and try again. Or cut the heads off of Q-tips. Pretty cheap to clean. A small bottle of Hopps will last forever.
Quote from: quickster47 on March 16, 2011, 02:15:18 AM
Unless your accuracy is really suffering, why bother to clean it. Just leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Carl
The gun shoots great. So, I should not clean it unless I notice a problem? OK. That woiks for me! I was just trying to stay ahead of any problems. I'll reevaluate when I get about 1000 pells through her. Thank you sir! Umm...do they make .177 cleaner pellets?
~Falcon
Quote from: zoned on March 12, 2011, 09:33:20 PM
Yep, it's a crapshoot with barrels. Some shoot great groups, others like a shotgun. LOL
I do agree though, that as little as most people would clean their airgun barrels, that weed whacker line would probably be ok to use. It's just good to have all the info first.
For sure i agree a crapshoot, i had a 1377 with a 14" barrel that did not shoot as good as i wanted,well i cut 3/4" off recrowned and bam it shot much better.is this luck of just science of airguns lol ???
Quote from: zoned on March 11, 2011, 09:19:40 PM
Be careful using weed eater line. It has an abrasive impregnated in it. That's why it cuts weeds so well.
I use weed eater line to clean my airgun and Contender match .22 rimfire barrels. I use the plain old cheap stuff. I have done a little research and I can find no mention of any abrasive being impregnated in it or any of the higher priced versions. It would certainly seem that manufacturers would mention this in their advertising if it indeed contained an abrasive. What is the source of your information? In any event, I usually clean these barrels only when new and then again whenever accuracy falls off so I doubt the line would harm the barrel even if it did contain abrasive.
Mike
So, if I understand this whole barrel cleaning scenario, don't clean it until the accuracy is off? Once cleaned it must be releaded with your favorite pellet? That makes sense to me, but I'm new to this.
~Falcon
cleaning your barrel might be a wise thing to do with a new gun.sometimes there is a lot of oils and such that will affect accuracy .my custom shop .22 shot crosman hps like a shot gun pattern(at 8 yards :( ) before cleaning the barrel and after the accucary was better but nothing to boost about.doesn't help that they are crappy pellets in my guns .my CR160 hates them even with a clean barrel :( . RWS hobbys aren't so bad though :)
I have read where some folks swab their barrel with JB Bore Paste. I haven't done it but wonder if anyone here has and the results.
I've also heard good things about JB Bore Paste and tried to order some from PA but it was never delivered, supposedly on backorder so I gave up. Wanted to try it but haven't yet.
Carl
I, too, use the weed-whacker line, el cheepo stuff from Ace. After reading this post, I conducted some experiments with it to see if it's abrasive. I was unable to produce a scratch on polished aluminum--which is much softer than the mild steel of an airgun barrel. I was able to produce some hazing on a piece of Plexiglas--so be careful if you have a plastic barrel! I'm very well convinced there's not a chance in heck of damaging my barrel with this stuff.
But, most importantly, I never touch the muzzle of the gun. The main reason for using a flexible cleaning rod is so I can push a patch through the bore from the breech end. As soon as the patch clears the muzzle, I pull the plastic back out--no chance of crown damage unless I use an abrasive patch--which I tend to avoid.
I clean my .177 pellet guns every 1,000 rounds or so, or after a day in dusty environs. My .22 powder burners get a swabbing after every 500 rounds, depending on the ammo I'm using (Fiocci sure shoots dirty--and stinks), and a detail about once a season. I use Hoppe's #9 on the powder burners, and Pellgun oil on the airguns. I run swabs through after the wet swab until they're perfectly clean to the eye.