Opinions, advice, suggestions, please.
I'm actually doing this mod for my 11 year old grandson. I tried to introduce him to my vintage 2100 classic, but with a trigger pull comparable to towing a utility trailer, I just don't see that happening soon. So this is going to be something of a balancing act. I'm looking for (pardon the expression) the most bang for my buck. That is, I want to understand what's the most cost - effective mod I can do that will yield the best results. Obviously, he won't be competing in 10m with this pistol, but I want to do what I can to ensure he'll have a positive and rewarding experience.
I searched for "improve trigger" and had many post show up.
Start with this one: https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,9044.msg120143.html#msg120143
Ah, thank you kindly. That was a great suggestion and will keep me reading for quite a while. I had done some searches, just not with those terms. :-*
There are a number of ways to improve the base Crosman pistol trigger. Generally lightening the trigger/sear spring and polishing contact points.
Here is another arrangement with the spring guide on top, and re-contouring and polishing the sear to slide smoothly on the guide.
The guide is a shortened clevis pin. The spring is a shortened spring from the hardware store assortment.
It is a very light pull. Select and modify spring with care when used by younger shooters.
Thanks Craig. Point VERY well taken. I've read about compressing the stock spring to lighten the pull. Might that be more prudent than a hardware store swap?
the springs i use in my light spring guide kit is from wb jones in Kentucky and i had a load shipped over to the UK as at the time no where in the UK had what i needed
they do need the guide though for stability
I should have mentioned the impetus for the re-contoured sear was observing the action of the spring and sear.
Recall the stock sear is flat. When, during operating, that flat contacts the flat top of the guide (top of spring mounted) the spring is distorted and bent toward the front of the grip frame. Not the end of the world, but I wanted to correct that. And, so the re-contoured sear.
I have a video of the bending of the spring, but expect it will fail to post due to size.
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No surprise - it did not load.
Thanks for pointing that out. It's subtle unless you know to look for it.
Quote from: Sweller on August 31, 2020, 06:59:56 PM
Thanks for pointing that out. It's subtle unless you know to look for it.
With a light spring and guide on top it becomes "unsubtle". :)
The guide makes a portion of the spring ridge and the spring bends at the unsupported point.
I've been happy with putting a spent .22LR case on the top of the spring then over compressing the stock spring to the pint where it has about 1/8" of preload .
I'd start there and see how you like it, of course some polishing won't hurt while you're in there, but doing the above only involves taking out one screw...
to counter the sring deflecting i tried cupping the tot of the guide and found no real benefit
i also tried adding a brass outer tube and again no real noticable difference
Quote from: mr007s on August 30, 2020, 10:40:01 PM
I searched for "improve trigger" and had many post show up.
Start with this one: https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,9044.msg120143.html#msg120143
don't know if the tko trigger kit is still available I had one in a 1377 and it is a good mod. the best mod imo is adding a 1701p (p-rod) trigger group is adjustable. I don't know what it costs these days probably as much as a 1377 but worth it again imho.
Quote from: 1377x on September 01, 2020, 06:09:21 PM
don't know if the tko trigger kit is still available I had one in a 1377 and it is a good mod. the best mod imo is adding a 1701p (p-rod) trigger group is adjustable. I don't know what it costs these days probably as much as a 1377 but worth it again imho.
Ooh. That's the Crosman Silhouette trigger group? Looks to be as scarce as it is pricey. But it also looks like a one-step drop-in upgrade to a match grade trigger?
(Am I drooling?)
I hve some parts laying around if only I could remember where I put them but if I find them ill list them here. I used to get the trigger group for $25 from a local shop if I had ordered from crosman they were around $50. I moved and cant shoot outdoors anymore, ill find the parts one day when I have time and list them here
The last P-Rod trigger assembly (2220-103) I bought from Crosman was $36.51. That was 1-2 years ago.
I read somewhere, in the last day or two, that Crosman made up things like trigger groups on demand. I'll just hang on to that part number until the appropriate time comes and see if they will accommodate me when I call them.
It is a standard part, 2220-103 Assy, grip frame.
Quote from: CraigH on September 02, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
The last P-Rod trigger assembly (2220-103) I bought from Crosman was $36.51. That was 1-2 years ago.
I think I paid a little bit more than that for my 2400KT last year. Plus 4 bucks shipping. My favorite 22xx/13xx trigger group and worth the money. Don't forget the solid striker. Mellon has a great price on them.
I'm loving CAPOF! Thanks everyone. What a great community.
I see you've gotten lots of good advice already but I'll point you to yet another DIY guide
https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,18078
(https://i.imgur.com/hU1Qh8k.jpg)
Lots more pictures in the link.
Thanks, nervoustrigger. I had read through those mods. I think the tip about using the flat glass is a particularly good one. I have a round piece that's formerly a vacuum chamber port that's at least 1/2 -inch thick and tough as nails.
We've been polishing, sanding, greasing, shimming (Wave washer?!? I hadn't seen one of those since my '67 Beetle!) and shooting! A couple of self-inspired mods of my own, I polished the rear blade to make it more visible, and I dabbed the top of the front sight with the brightest green acrylic paint we have. Helps me see a lot better and makes it easier to describe what a young shooter needs to do.
As it stands, the trigger is just about perfect for me. But for one small detail. SLOP! Geeze, the hole in the trigger is big enough to drive in a bushing. Mod #2: Replace the factory trigger. There's an aluminum one on eBay for $30 shipped. Anyone got a better suggestion?
Thanks again to everyone. We're hitting the bull at 10 meters!
EDIT: There was an email from Crosman waiting for me in my inbox letting me know that part number 2220-103 is currently out of stock, but to check back with them around the middle of the month. Something tells me this will be a much better investment than the $30 ePay trigger. Meanwhile, it works and we're having fun.
To anyone that recently upgraded their 1377 with the Crosman 1701P trigger group:
Was there anything other than the factory kit needed to complete the upgrade?
Yes, you need a solid striker. If not, the sear catches on the groove and will not shoot properly. Here is a write up if you want to do it yourself.
Or you can buy one here
https://mellonair.myfreesites.net (https://mellonair.myfreesites.net)
https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,18794.msg235997.html#msg235997 (https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,18794.msg235997.html#msg235997)
Aha! I just figured out my confusion (maybe).
The terms "striker" and "hammer" are used interchangeably? Even Crosman seems to do it. On the 1377 Exploded View drawing, they list line item:
19 STRIKER, with no other reference to the term, and
37 HAMMER PIN with no other reference to the term.
And since 37 is inserted into 19, can I safely assume the terms "striker" and "hammer" refer to the same part?
Good morning! Still drinking coffee...
That's correct. I started using striker a few years back as I've always been a revolver guy in the powder burner world. There is an obvious difference between what is considered a hammer in the two, even though they have the same result, getting there differs slightly. Inner workings of my mind!
Very reasonably priced at $15 or $20 notched. But I'm unsure which of need with the Crosman 1701P trigger group on a 1377.
Notched or not?
Not notched. That is the type of hammer I have always used & have been happy .
I am really not sure what the notch does or what it prevents. Possibly the release of back pressure from the hammer? IDK
https://mellonair.myfreesites.net/odds-ends
If your breech is using the rear 4-48 screw (under the bolt) position) then you need the notched striker. The notch allows the striker full travel without hitting the threaded portion of the screw that hangs down in the tube. If you have the forward position, you don't need the notch because the striker will not travel that far to the valve.
I normally use a notched striker regardless. If you've ever bent one of those screws and then worked on getting it out, you know what I mean.
That rung a huge bell. It's hard to keep track off everything with all I've been reading. And I had read that the newest breaches had holes in both positions, too. I was hoping for a rearward screw because of the pellets snagging on the screw hole. Unfortunately, I didn't get one like that.
I got impatient and got wildly different guess as to when the official kit would be back in stock. I don't deal well with unknowns, so I pieced together a 1701 group trigger from the official Crosman 1701P drawing. The order came out to $60.25 plus their standard $4 shipping. Not too bad. Meanwhile, I can start work on a modified hammer. I might even order one from Mellon Air, too.
1763-055 SET SCREW, 4-40 x .312, OV PT
1763-055 SET SCREW, 4-40 x .312, OV PT
1763-056 SCREW, 4-40 x .375, FHCS
2220-013 SCREW, ADJUSTER
2220-015 HOUSING, ADJUSTER
2220-018 FRAME, TRIGGER
2220-019 TRIGGER
2220-020 LINK, TRIGGER
2220-021 SEAR
2220-022 SPRING, LINK
2220-023 SPRING, TRIGGER
2220-024 SPRING, SEAR
2220-025 PIN, DOWEL, .125 X .375
2220-025 PIN, DOWEL, .125 X .375
2220-026 SCREW, 0-80 x .125, PPH
2300-042 SETSCREW 8-32 x .25 BRASS TIP
I just did order a hammer from Charlie Mellon. While I was pondering the installation of it, it dawned on me that there are two pins associated with it:
CH2009-023 Pin, Acetal
1700-015 Hammer Pin
Are both pins reusable from the stock hammer in my 1377? Are they pressed in? Are they boogers to remove?
EDIT: The 1377 does not have an Acetal pin.
The 1377 does have a hammer pin, but it's a different part number than the one above which is for a 1701P. Is that going to be a problem?
It is not pressed in, it comes right out once you slide the hammer back to the rear end of the slot in the tube, otherwise the hammer wouldn't come out of the tube...
Thanks.
I hope you're safe in McMinnville.
Yeah, doing good, the smoke finally went away today since it rained last night, I'm a fair distance from any of the big fires, I do know several people in the Stayton area that got hit hard, only one lost their house. This year has been stupid, I'm over it...
Good to hear. Our SIL is from Portland. His folks live on the cost, so we keep a watchful eye.
Stay safe. Stay healthy.
I received and installed the parts that make up the 1701P trigger group. All is good if not just a tiny bit touchy. At least, and I'm happy to say, I have a proper two stage trigger on my 1377. It's surprising how a little turn of a grub screw can make such a huge difference.
Is there a written procedure that a buffoon (me) can follow that will allow me to always get back to a known starting point, before I lock it all down with Locktite?
As I remember, there are no actual written instructions from Crosman. What I did, is find the drawing of the trigger assembly. Somewhere on this forum there is a picture and a drawing of insides with the side cover off.
By understanding the relationship between all the moving parts, by looking at this drawing, I was able to adjust everything just how I like it.
Still, it sure is easy to move thing more/less than wanted and even end up with a single stage trigger.
Once you do have it set and sure that's where you want it, take a drop of blue loc-tire on a toothpick and place on both screws. They may well move without it. Adjustments are still okay with "blue". Just redo if needed.
Pic and thread....
https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,4561.5.html (https://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,4561.5.html)
Yes, thanks. That was just one of my reference pics. From looking at that, I just kind of started with both A and B grub screws set by eye at midway and went from there.
It's in the 1701P owner's manual. :)
Thanks. I've read it, re-read it, and read it again. That was what I used to put it together. Problem is, it doesn't suggest a starting point for the adjustments.
I'm probably just being too picky or overly dense.
Only 1/4 turn of the Allen key each move you make. Alternate between clockwise and counter clockwise one screw at a time until you understand exactly what you action is doing to the travel of each stage.
If 1/4 turn doesn't get you able to feel the difference in the 1st and 2nd pull lengths then open up to 1/2 turns.
You'll get it! Just takes a little getting used to. And then if you ever have to start over for some reason, you will go through all this again 😂 At least go me it is not something I hold in my memory.
That's why I said that once you get it just right... Loc-tite
Try this.
https://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2019/04/installing-crosmans-two-stage-trigger.html
:D or this
https://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2019/04/installing-crosmans-two-stage-trigger.html
This is great info:
Quote from Another Airgun Blog
"With the grip frame installed, the window made it easy to adjust the two stages perfectly. The front screw adjusts the length of the first stage. The rear screw, the second stage. I wanted the first stage relatively long and with a solid "wall" when it transitioned to the second stage, then just a bit more pressure (but no perceived travel) to fire. To do that, I screwed the front screw in further than the rear and played with the adjustments while cocking and dry firing the pistol. Backing out the link spring tension adjuster also let me dial in the feel. When finished, I adjusted the trigger stop so the trigger stopped cold at the moment of firing."
Love the access hole too, but I'm not going back into mine again unless absolutely needed! 😮
Good morning and thanks for the links.
What he says about the access hole is absolutely correct. I'd have had a snowball's chance of getting the hex key into those grub screws with my fat ape hand in the way of my eyeball trying to look through that little hole in the trigger guard !
While I still had easy access, I took a Dremel to the trigger and removed the sharp points that my finger didn't like. A little polish and you have to look to see the difference.
One of the reader comments was about the stop screw biting fingers. I found a dust cap that came on a fiber optic cable that pressed on snuggly. Not the prettiest thing, but very effective.
(//)
Pictures after coffee.
After I get my shop built and get back into things, I need to order one of these trigger setups for my 1740 franken gun... just for fun, it's set up pretty light now, but why not...
Quote from: rangerfredbob on September 29, 2020, 06:30:48 AM
After I get my shop built and get back into things, I need to order one of these trigger setups for my 1740 franken gun... just for fun, it's set up pretty light now, but why not...
You won't regret this upgrade. Next to a LW barrel, its the best upgrade for accuracy and trigger consistency available for the 13xx and 22xx platforms. Sure, there are the pains of getting it installed and set up, but once you have it right where you want it, I can guarantee a big smile as trigger control becomes a non issue.
That's why I own two Marauder rifles... I love the trigger on my first gen .22. Even if I'm out of practice if some pest is ticking me off it's done for :). I want a marauder pistol for a more compact package but they're hard to find a deal on... might as well just make something :)