Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum

Crosman air pistol - General => Crosman air pistol - General discussion => Topic started by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 06:53:36 AM

Title: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 06:53:36 AM
What direction does the breech sleeve and gasket face up?
Tanks
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: brz-ryder † on November 14, 2013, 07:08:19 AM
The gasket goes on top of the valve between the valve and the breech the long end up for the TP
the tp short end down into the gasket

Jim
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 08:06:38 AM
Thx got it..

That's leading me to another problem. When the barrel is installed and lined up and screwed in, the prob bottoms out on the breech before the handle gets to the groove to be pressed down. Is there a solution to this?
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: bgmcgee on November 14, 2013, 12:01:12 PM
Do you have the right size bolt? As in trying to use a .22 in a .177 barrel. You could try a smaller oring on the probe.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 04:58:21 PM
seems to be right, it seats ok out of the breech, its a little tighter on the o ring than the stock one.

so im working with a custom barrel made from 760 and a custom bolt from mellonair with a long steel crosman breech.
   
could anyone please post two pictures for me, i cant find any. one close up of the breech end of a crosman factory barrel  and another the same with a probe seated in it, i think this would be a huge help.. thanks a ton in advance =)  :-*
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 14, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Hmm...

It sounds like your 760 barrel wasn't prepped right for the crosman bolt probe. The 760's bolt probe is a different shape and size.
If I'm right, your probe isn't catching on the breech...it is catching on the face of the barrel.

If you take a look at a standard 13xx or 22xx barrel loading area, you will see there is an indented groove that only goes in maybe 1/16th of an inch. If your 760 barrel wasn't prepped with that groove, it could be causing the hangup on the bolt probe.


I also could be completely wrong.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 14, 2013, 05:48:57 PM
I really don't feel like taking apart the 760, but I will if you want me to compare the 760 barrel to the 22xx/13xx barrel.

Here is a quick picture of the two probes next to eachother. You can sort of see the size difference I mentioned above...
Keep in mine, the 760 probe is .177 and the other probe is .22, but still, they have different designs.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 06:12:41 PM
i reemed it out with a drill and got it the right depth but the tapper is wrong.. the pellets wont feed for crap. when i get them in there right the seal and shoot great... but they wont feed now =( barrel FUBR   :-X
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: woody67 on November 14, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Hmm...

It sounds like your 760 barrel wasn't prepped right for the crosman bolt probe. The 760's bolt probe is a different shape and size.
If I'm right, your probe isn't catching on the breech...it is catching on the face of the barrel.

If you take a look at a standard 13xx or 22xx barrel loading area, you will see there is an indented groove that only goes in maybe 1/16th of an inch. If your 760 barrel wasn't prepped with that groove, it could be causing the hangup on the bolt probe.


I also could be completely wrong.

could i get that same top picture without the O so i can see what the tapper looks  like, thx
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 14, 2013, 06:27:22 PM
Yes...i will re-take the picture with a light shining into it so you can see it better...give me a few mins...
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: ped on November 14, 2013, 06:40:20 PM
you might get away with reducing the shoulder on the probe but as the pellets aren't loading it sounds like you need to increase the angle of taper at the back of the barrel
if the probes not going in you still have chance to salvage it
i use a cheap hand ream to get the taper as the barrels are quite soft but you can use a fine abrasive cone shaped dremmel bit
ped
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 14, 2013, 06:41:54 PM
Ok, here you go:

actually, first take a look at this:  http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2013_03_17_archive.html (http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2013_03_17_archive.html)

Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 09:01:13 PM
i think the hole is already to big to add any tapper =(
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: rangerfredbob on November 14, 2013, 09:24:06 PM
You just need to smooth at the end of where you drilled, not where the O ring seats, just past that, I bet there's a sharp edge there that is catching the pellets
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 09:30:16 PM
Quote from: ped on November 14, 2013, 06:40:20 PM
you might get away with reducing the shoulder on the probe but as the pellets aren't loading it sounds like you need to increase the angle of taper at the back of the barrel
if the probes not going in you still have chance to salvage it
i use a cheap hand ream to get the taper as the barrels are quite soft but you can use a fine abrasive cone shaped dremmel bit
ped

what size is that hand reamer?
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 14, 2013, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: rangerfredbob on November 14, 2013, 09:24:06 PM
You just need to smooth at the end of where you drilled, not where the O ring seats, just past that, I bet there's a sharp edge there that is catching the pellets

i dont think this would work because the catch point is right where the o ring sits and the barrel opens. to get a tapper where I need i would have to have a way to add material back .. ill post a pic
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 15, 2013, 02:58:34 AM
can you take the breech and barrel off while the c02 is still in the tube?
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 15, 2013, 03:27:36 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: ped on November 15, 2013, 11:09:34 PM
this is the type of reamer i'm using they're pretty soft so it will only do a couple of barrels and you do need to polish the leade a fair bit to get the marks out but it gets you in the right ball park i get the leade right before drilling the port
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAPERED-HAND-REAMER-DEBURRER-for-3mm-to-12mm-diameter-/251372020416?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a86f0a2c0#ht_1139wt_779 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAPERED-HAND-REAMER-DEBURRER-for-3mm-to-12mm-diameter-/251372020416?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a86f0a2c0#ht_1139wt_779)
ped
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: BDS on November 18, 2013, 07:53:47 PM
Quote from: kraaash on November 15, 2013, 02:58:34 AM
can you take the breech and barrel off while the c02 is still in the tube?

Yes but, why would you want to? Handling any device that has 800+ psi in it while it is being disassembled is a bad plan IMO.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: rangerfredbob on November 19, 2013, 08:14:24 AM
That's true BDS, but with the way these are built the risk is pretty low if the safety is off and the hammer isn't cocked, nothing above the tube has anything to do with holding pressure... just as dangerous as handling it assembled...
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 19, 2013, 01:45:08 PM
Even if you cock the hammer and pull the trigger, you just get a blast of air that goes straight up. Absolutely no difference than it blasting straight out of the barrel.

People do this all the time. Ive done it with my marauders countless times while tuning and installing orings etc.
It is not unsafe to take the breech off while a co2 cartridge is in.

Might as not well not even own one based on your advise.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 20, 2013, 09:49:24 PM
How do I post a pic from photobucket? I have a few more problems I'm afraid
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 20, 2013, 09:55:21 PM
Mm got it... So first question is about this Mellonair prob.. It seats a bit different than the stock one shown next to it, it's a bit bigger, is this as it should be? This is suppose to be for 177
(http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/Kraaash/e578acee9facd8eadcd3a22b190cc529_zpsf9f2d34d.jpg)
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 20, 2013, 09:57:10 PM
The other question I have is a breech problem, it doesn't sit all the way down towards the front, although it doesn't seem to have any air escape.
(http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/Kraaash/1bb59a5129e7dda6deb7a27baf465ce3_zps91054c49.jpg)
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 20, 2013, 09:59:40 PM
Third question.. I think my valve also from Mellonair is messed up.. I have it where it needs to be for the grip frame and screw to install and the outlet hole is off on an angle from the tube hole.. By a lot, am I going to be able to get this to work?

(http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/Kraaash/c5da974ba7a388e75211ae79254be5bc_zps3b730cc5.jpg)
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: K.O. on November 20, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
I think the valve misalignment is  from Crosman my 1322 valve was slightly off also. but not as bad.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 20, 2013, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: K.O. on November 20, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
I think the valve misalignment is  from Crosman my 1322 valve was slightly off also. but not as bad.

The valve is a flat top I ordered from Mellon
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 21, 2013, 03:21:55 AM
Every valve i have ggotten from mellon has been off like that.
He told me to twist it back/unscrew it just a bit and it should line up and work perfectly..if it doesnt im sure he will send you one that works.

Can you tighten down the front screw in the breech(where the pellet gets loaded)? That should tighten down the breech. Sometimes i clamp it before tigtening. Could be that the mis alligned valve is causing the transfer port to not seat correctly, resulting in keeping the breech from tightening down correctly.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 21, 2013, 05:08:28 AM
Quote from: woody67 on November 21, 2013, 03:21:55 AM
Every valve i have ggotten from mellon has been off like that.
He told me to twist it back/unscrew it just a bit and it should line up and work perfectly..if it doesnt im sure he will send you one that works.

Can you tighten down the front screw in the breech(where the pellet gets loaded)? That should tighten down the breech. Sometimes i clamp it before tigtening. Could be that the mis alligned valve is causing the transfer port to not seat correctly, resulting in keeping the breech from tightening down correctly.

Thx.. Should the mellonair prob be so much firmer to seat in? The stock one slides all the way in.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 21, 2013, 02:36:23 PM
From the picture it looks like the mellon bolt has a thicker oring...that could be the reason. Maybe switch them and see if you have the same issue?
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: BDS on November 21, 2013, 03:15:14 PM
Be sure you have a super smooth interior surface in that tube, a little wet/dry 600 (wet) on a dowel followed by some Rem Oil will work, put Pellgunoil or silicone oil on the exterior o-ring. The threads on the Mellon valves are not indexed so, as Woody noted, it just needs un-tightening and a slight rotation to line up.
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: kraaash on November 26, 2013, 02:03:19 AM
Quote from: woody67 on November 21, 2013, 03:21:55 AM
Every valve i have ggotten from mellon has been off like that.
He told me to twist it back/unscrew it just a bit and it should line up and work perfectly..if it doesnt im sure he will send you one that works.

Can you tighten down the front screw in the breech(where the pellet gets loaded)? That should tighten down the breech. Sometimes i clamp it before tigtening. Could be that the mis alligned valve is causing the transfer port to not seat correctly, resulting in keeping the breech from tightening down correctly.

Could one file down the transfer port a tad to get the breech to tighten up?
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: woody67 on November 26, 2013, 02:27:43 AM
Maybe...i throw those things away and use poly tubing..
Title: Re: Assembly help
Post by: ped on November 26, 2013, 07:56:50 PM
filing it down would work but like woody i prefer poly tube or ptfe did you fit the tp to the barrel before you tightened the barrel grubscrews up as sometimes they look aligned but are a little fraction of which stops the tp seating properly
i fit the barrel to the breech put a tp in the hole then gently twist the barrel a fraction to find the best fit then tighten the grub screws
ped