Ordered/received a 1322 2 weeks ago. Really was impressed with the newer style grips and pump handle. Actually felt pretty good pointing and pumping. Trigger not so much(surprise huh?). Could support the cocked gun and bounce on trigger finger without firing. ??? Did some deburring/polishing, .020 wire sear spring, fit a guide for it and shimmed the pivots to eliminate the wobble. Pull is Not too bad now @ 1.5#. I can deal with that. Fired a few shots(notice that I have a problem- mods 1st and then check to see if it works lol ) and I was underwhelmed. 2 shots on target(1" bull at 15yds), 1 completely off card , 2 on, but 5" away from bull. Try again more misses than hits. Quite a bit of barrel play...rats! Mods en route. Started with a steel breech. That will help a bunch. Been reading a bunch here, the Green and GTA. Asked Davio a question or two yesterday and ordered more stuff today. A band to compliment the breech as well as the pivot pin and a bolt probe. I'm not too concerned about making max power(yet, it will happen. btdt. I have faith in human nature). Still need a set of dovetail mounts for a 2.5x20 shotgun scope and adapter for my stock.
Is there anything else I should be considering to achieve minute of squirrel's eye at 20yards?
tia :)
Looks to me like you've got it pretty much covered. Have fun. :-*
Looks like you are on the right track. After that, all you will need is to find the pellet that it likes. :)
I've got a Davio aluminum breech on mine with a slightly longer bbl and backpacker band to accommodate muzzle accessories. Paired with p-rod trigger group/hammer and flat top piston and valve. On top sits a Walther MRS red dot. Shooting CPHP's I've not tagged a squirrel, but it's MoH (Minute of HOSP 8) )for sure at 20 yards!
Sounds like you are on the right track.
More power, flat top piston and valve, and longer barrel.
Better trigger control, 1701P trigger frame.
Carl
Good to know I'm "thinkin right".
Barrel will fine for now. Narrowed down to 12-14.5" when I do swap one in.
The trigger group is something I've been reading most on. A great trigger really helps thread the needle so to speak.
As far as more power: if it ain't all in by 10 pumps, I'm reaching for something else. 5-8 pumps is the range I'm looking for. I don't think the low-mid 500's is an unreasonable goal. Will be looking for as much flow as possible down low.
Plus one on the 1701 trigger group. Remember a custom hammer or jbweld nodded hammer is needed you will end up with a broken sear
Good reminder 1377x.
Steel breech arrived today. Installed and test fired. No leaks and consistency improved hugely. Can now keep 10 shots in a 10m bull (with only the front sight!?) Went ahead robbed the 4x scope off the CMP 853. Tested with a taco style hold. This is now shooting as I recall my former 13xx did. The trigger, as improved as polish/respring is, is the downfall. I definitely know where I go next! The hammer advice is much appreciated.
Quote from: RinCG on May 24, 2016, 01:49:12 AM
Good reminder 1377x.
Steel breech arrived today. Installed and test fired. No leaks and consistency improved hugely. Can now keep 10 shots in a 10m bull (with only the front sight!?) Went ahead robbed the 4x scope off the CMP 853. Tested with a taco style hold. This is now shooting as I recall my former 13xx did. The trigger, as improved as polish/respring is, is the downfall. I definitely know where I go next! The hammer advice is much appreciated.
Here is all the information you will probably need to fit the 1701P trigger frame.
http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,4561.0.html (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,4561.0.html)
Carl
Thanks Carl! I've read every word on those 19 pages (3 times to tell the truth). Saved to my speed dial and a small detail or two tells me that I need to re-read it again. :-[ Yes I'm sponging up what I can. Have too many wild crazy ideas in many different directions to remember it all. I now know the trigger is definitely "next".
I also have a modified 1377 hammer sitting around if you need to make a swap.
Carl
Thank you! Will be another paycheck away before I can move ahead further. Very righteous of you to offer.
Quote from: RinCG on May 24, 2016, 02:48:14 AM
Thank you! Will be another paycheck away before I can move ahead further. Very righteous of you to offer.
PM me your address and I send you a modified 1377 hammer. I trust you and besides that, lots of folks in my old organization, the CIA, still owe me some big favors. LoL ;D
Carl
I know I'm Way out there, but not so sure you need to contact the Celestial Intervention Agency?! (obligatory Dr Who reference)
pm sent.and Thank You, you big ol' enabler you ;)
Quote from: RinCG on May 24, 2016, 10:13:09 PM
I know I'm Way out there, but not so sure you need to contact the Celestial Intervention Agency?! (obligatory Dr Who reference)
pm sent.and Thank You, you big ol' enabler you ;)
Too funny. Gots to remember that reference... :P
Carl
Alchemy parts arrived this a.m.
Took an hour of impatient waiting for the PO to open up after lunch and 15 minutes to have it all installed.
The 3D band was a snug fit but went right on. The pivot pin was a little tougher and the bolt the easiest. All in all, quite a discernible improvement from stock.
10m accuracy is very good, now waiting to wring out accuracy at a bit further distance. Liking what I'm seeing at 10m though. Rainy rainy and more rainy at the moment. The long weekend should yield an opportunity or three.
Have about $25 in change in the Mod Jar. That 1701 grip assy is getting closer to a sooner reality :D
Cool deal. :-* These are some fun guns to mod and shoot for sure.
Quote from: quickster47 on May 24, 2016, 03:22:11 AM
PM me your address and I send you a modified 1377 hammer. I trust you and besides that, lots of folks in my old organization, the CIA, still owe me some big favors. LoL ;D
Carl
Carl,
Hammer arrived this a.m. - A Big Thank You!
Not sure how USPS routed this package as it took a hard right in Minneapolis 100 miles out of the way. Normally just straight South ??? But Hey it is here :D
Beautiful work on the fill and polish I might add!
Hoping to get the grip frame ordered(and a few other parts of course) this week and R&R the pumper with a few tweaks(of course).
Quote from: RinCG on June 01, 2016, 08:00:51 PM
Carl,
Hammer arrived this a.m. - A Big Thank You!
Not sure how USPS routed this package as it took a hard right in Minneapolis 100 miles out of the way. Normally just straight South ??? But Hey it is here :D
Beautiful work on the fill and polish I might add!
Hoping to get the grip frame ordered(and a few other parts of course) this week and R&R the pumper with a few tweaks(of course).
Well, regardless of its path glad to know it's safe in your hands.
Carl
It's great to read of RincCG's adventure with modding. It sure sounds like fun. Brings back some memories of my own introduction to my
my Crosman pistols. I didn't go as far nor as fast but it was still fun. Just realized I haven't shot my Crosman pistols since last year...
I'm looking forward to reading more about the modding process.... oops, I feel a purchase coming on! :-* Oh, no! Wally World is calling.....
Quote from: Redleg on June 02, 2016, 03:29:01 AM
It's great to read of RincCG's adventure with modding. It sure sounds like fun. Brings back some memories of my own introduction to my
my Crosman pistols. I didn't go as far nor as fast but it was still fun. Just realized I haven't shot my Crosman pistols since last year...
I'm looking forward to reading more about the modding process.... oops, I feel a purchase coming on! :-* Oh, no! Wally World is calling.....
Hmmm "there are many like it, but this one is mine"
Nothing special about this build other than it is mine. ;)
Many others have blazed the trail (this will be my 4th trip) and it is fun for sure!
I called in a parts order yesterday just a bit before the shop closed. Didn't get all the stuff I wanted but the "importantist" ones for now. 2220-103, 2289-001 and some tp rings & seals. Will gather some extras further down the road. Am going to try the reduced volume valve process 1st & port tuning just to see if I can tell a difference. Not real sure if I'll do a ft piston and valve yet as it seems so many are having good luck with the newer cupped piston and cone valve. We shall see.
Well the Crosman order arrived today. :)
Another "Thank You, thank you, thank you " to Carl for sending me that modded hammer.
With that and some metal removal from the sear nose, the 1701P frame assembly was installed with nary an issue(save for that 2 legged torsen spring displacing itself- who comes up with this stuff?!). While I had it that far apart anyway, I reamed the TP to .157" and added an o-ring to the top of it. All together now. Testing the trigger before tinkering further with it. Seems slightly heavier than the modified factory 1322 trigger but more precise and a bit smoother even without further polish(yet ;) ). May just leave it alone.
Now it will be the 14.5" barrel and a carbine'd carbine stock. Until I work the adapter to folder dilemma anyway. Fun Fun!
If your trigger is heavier than a OEM, you may not have adjusted the first and second stage set screws. I have all mine adjusted to little more than 1oz and there is no comparison to an OEM trigger however you modify it. The only thing I have done to mine is put a very thin washer under the trigger to stop the side to side movement, polish the appropriate spots and add a little moly lube.
Quote from: 7624452 on June 10, 2016, 04:03:28 AM
If your trigger is heavier than a OEM, you may not have adjusted the first and second stage set screws. I have all mine adjusted to little more than 1oz and there is no comparison to an OEM trigger however you modify it. The only thing I have done to mine is put a very thin washer under the trigger to stop the side to side movement, polish the appropriate spots and add a little moly lube.
Thanks for the diagram instructions Art. No I had not adjusted anything on the trigger at all. Well, only enough to get the 1322 to cock and fire. I knew it had a lot more adjustment to it, but it was precise & predictable. My estimate was the pull weight was @ 2 - 2 1/4 # with a slight first stage and even more slight second stage with a bit more pressure. I've used the instructions to improve my perception of trigger feel. Trigger tension is as low as it goes(is there a trick to drop it just a bit more?) and my first stage has about 3/32" movement with a very short 1-ish # second stage. I like the way this is set now. I've added ptfe pivot washers to eliminate trigger wiggle and a bit of MoS2 on sear contacts to smooth things up further. I could polish now but it is real nice as it sits.
Quote from: RinCG on June 10, 2016, 02:37:53 PM
Thanks for the diagram instructions Art. No I had not adjusted anything on the trigger at all. Well, only enough to get the 1322 to cock and fire. I knew it had a lot more adjustment to it, but it was precise & predictable. My estimate was the pull weight was @ 2 - 2 1/4 # with a slight first stage and even more slight second stage with a bit more pressure. I've used the instructions to improve my perception of trigger feel. Trigger tension is as low as it goes(is there a trick to drop it just a bit more?) and my first stage has about 3/32" movement with a very short 1-ish # second stage. I like the way this is set now. I've added ptfe pivot washers to eliminate trigger wiggle and a bit of MoS2 on sear contacts to smooth things up further. I could polish now but it is real nice as it sits.
No, I don't have any tricks. I just unscrew the trigger weight adjuster all the way out and fiddle with the set screws until I get a less than 2 pound pull. I tried just about everything you can do to modify an OEM frame, but none of them were as good as this 1701P frame assembly. Enjoy. :)
Quote from: 7624452 on June 11, 2016, 11:00:18 PM
I tried just about everything you can do to modify an OEM frame, but none of them were as good as this 1701P frame assembly. Enjoy. :)
So very true...
Carl
...and I've found it true also.
I had my doubts. After fiddling around with it more last night and this morning, no longer a doubt at all. Even better after the double legged torsen spring was correctly placed. Best money spent on the 13xx/22xx platforms.
I know there are super sears, roller triggers, self made tweaks of the oem parts and spring/guide mods- this one saves time, money and lots of spares from trying them all. About as similar to Rekord/CD/Diana triggers as you can get. Sorry for the bold statement, but after many TO1/5/6, CD and Rekord equipped guns I feel justified. I still favor my HW's but this 1701P assembly is right there. I'm sure trigger time will prove me correct.
Took my first pests with it today :) 3 starlings, a grackle and a tree rat that was inside the feeder chewing it's way back out. Measured 16.7yds on the rat, 18 on the feathered piglets. All with 6 pumps. Right where I want the sweet spot. I guess I'm there. Now just usable improvements as I see fit. More likely add as many as I can...these moddable platforms are addictive.
If you lock (glue) the pins to the frame to remove that tolerance slop, the 1701 group can be almost as good as a HW-75... almost -
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1750/tgroup1_zpsukilxdqb.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1750/tgroup1_zpsukilxdqb.jpg.html)
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1750/tgroup2_zpsniervtb8.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1750/tgroup2_zpsniervtb8.jpg.html)
it's going to be pretty good anyway (like the other guys said) - great mod and keep up the good work :-*
It's "progress pics" and "posterity pics" that are Good Work. I've never been good at those. It is those that are that deserve commendations.
Thank You!
Just waiting to install 14.5" barrel, ldc and paint some cutlines.
For the most part this is "complete"?
LOL Nevah!
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/1322%20XtraShort.3.jpg_zpsnku2xsho.jpg)
Stock ended up 5/8" shorter than I wanted- will be building up the butt
plate sooner or later(see? not so done!!) then Valve and Piston mods. :)
Looking good. :-*
Looks pretty cool to me. :-* Nice work.
Thanks Fellas! Over all length with the 10" barrel is right at 22". Slick little carbine.
just sighted it in. Had forgotten how nice the little 2.5x20 Bantam scope is. Circle-X reticle sighted for 15yds spot on cross hair with 6 pumps, @ 10 pumps same distance just under top of the upper circle/vert stadia. I can focus clearly at 5 feet and read plate numbers at 60 yards. Quite a sweet scope for $19.99!
Nice build you gave there. Compact with all the necessary pieces. :-* :-* :-*
Carl
Looks great!! :-* :-*
That is a sweet looking little carbine. :-* :-* :-*
Thankies Gents!
Discovered a couple things. I found that by shouldering the Carbonated(lol)13xx so it is squared up to my body instead of rifleman style, the LOP is perfect. ie: torso 90 degrees to the shoulder stock. Works well for my shooting style in other disciplines also. I use shorter than standard LOP's for shotgunning and AR types also so why not airguns? Not sure how I missed that detail before but there you have it.
Lower rings would be beneficial & a comb extension (not a riser) will help a lot. Luckily I see that bastion of Capitalism (WM) actually has some low rimfire/ag rings in stock(.27" and .32")???? Someone is looking out for me I think, or at least making sure the hole in my wallet stays cobweb free ;D . PVC/ABS will form an extension along with a piece of leather out of my scrap box for a cover.
For those that have painted these stocks: What do you use ? Krylon Fusion, bedliner, Rustoleum? Is one brand/color better at color matching? and which one is seemingly more durable- I don't enjoy taking back apart to re-do my work unless there is some good performance benefit. No, I won't go wild hippie dippie cosmic trippy colors lol just looking for suggestions.
Well I did away with the idea of lower rings and the comb extension. I dug through some boxes and found a cast off ventilated butt pad. Happened to be it was 5/8"! What luck. Drizzled some 2 part epoxy on and clamped it on. Perfect alignment. Judicious sanding and now needs a paint job for sure. Will leave it basic black.
Thought I may as well chrony it so I sort of have a stock baseline. Remember I did enlarge the transfer port to .154-ish, all else remains stock thus far.
5 pumps avg'd 440
6 avg'd 454
10 avg'd 468
fairly linear with low 3fps deviations using 14.3g cphp's. Happy that it is at the advertised velocity at 10 pumps.
Will be shimming the pump cup seal and stiffening the piston and angling the port. I have some delrin rod that is about .25" diameter and may reduce the valve volume slightly. Is it reasonable to assume 480-500 fps at 6-7 pumps with a 14" barrel?
I'm having fun eliminating fur and feathers at the 450 fps levels, more with less effort is all gravy. :-*
I know I know- nothing new but updated the barrel and replaced the blown out transfer port not the seal but the port( ??? I must've done a poor job enlarging it as it now has nothing to keep it centered in the barrel port. Spares are nice to have.) Modded the factory band to allow the 14 1/4" barrel to snugly fit. No shimming required.
Chrony showed 470 fps @ 6 pumps and 501 fps @ 10 pumps. Deviation still low 3's. Decent improvement for a small amount of work. Seems less loud at least. Really appreciate the Alchemy Band now after switching back to stock. The pump arm wobbles and is less precise feeling. I could either mod the Alchemy band the same way or get a ready made one.
Sooner or later will dig inside and do piston/valve mods...maybe. It's getting the job done but as always some improvement is in (or on) order ;)
obligatory deer in the headlights pic.
Modded the Alchemy band for the longer barrel. 3D material is tough stuff!
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/IMG-20160703-00363_crop_zpsh9fnchgg.jpg)
Couldn't wait 7 days for the paint to cure did manage 48 hours though. :P
Looking at this lil feller now, it needs a functional ldc.
Yours looks about like mine. I found a step-drill that easily drilled the barrel band. Since this photo was taken I've added a 45° angle adapter to the rail for easy on-off for a flashlight.The (pictured) laser sight is gone...
Could be twins! lol I even tried the laser/flashlight combo on mine.
I have a 11mm and a 7/16 drill bit some where. After 10 moves they are most likely at move 3 or 4 :P
I did manage to find my new 3/8" bit and sanded/fit/sanded/fit that last 1/16". Tedious but is super snug to barrel.
I really enjoy how easy it loads with the pistol scope in the 'scout' position.
Had thought about doing the same thing but didn't have a pistol scope in the goody box. It sure looks like a good solution to getting a pellet in easily as well as keeping the carbine balanced.
I borrowed my hair clip loader that I use with my scoped 853. Waist of the pellet goes in the open ends and my chubby fingers don't fumble at the port.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/R6j6B/853loader_zps32e722bd.jpg)