While visiting with my In-Laws a couple of weeks ago, I was making the rounds thru the local junk/resale/surplus stores and saw what looked like an old Crosman 1377. It had a small curved panel covering the breech and a cocking knob at the rear of the tube. It was a little bit beat up and I wasn't too interested (at that moment in time) he said I could have it for $30 OTD. I didn't have the cash in my pocket and he didn't want an out of state check and didn't take my Discover card. Bottom line is I didn't get it. Over the next few days, I got busy with other stuff and kinda forgot about the American Classic... until I got back home. After only a few minutes of research, I figured that I might have messed up by not snagging that pistol. I dashed off an email note to my F-I-L wondering if he'd be able to go back and see if it was still available. Well, shortening an already long story, after several emails in as many days, my F-I-L tells me he snagged the gun for $30 OTD! I'm hoping that there's someone out there that thinks that I did OK. Since I had given it only a cursory exam when I first looked at it, I can't recall noting whether or not the breech was steel or plastic. I guess I'll just have to wait until I get it home to find out for sure. Until then, what's the general take on what I've acquired? Flex
o
Good deal. It's likely a Phase II 1377. Plastic breech, pull-cocker with a nice brass valve. You can keep it stock, but mine never shot well because of the loose barrel in the plastic breech and barrel band which was slightly cocked to one side. I added a steel breech and barrel band and it immediately became my best shooting 13xx. Being a Crosmaniac i couldnt leave well enough alone and have since added longer barrel with new crown,FT piston/valve, 1701 frame and new wood. I kept all the best components...the pull cocker and hammer, the valve and the pump arm linkage which has no wobble. original tube too with the American Classic stamping. Still my best and favorite 13xx.
If it has the curved twist and lock breech cover,breech should be all metal,an early Crosman,good find.
1377 Phase l had a 1 piece wrap around grip panel, phase ll had separate grip panels, same as later models.
That's the same pistol I started my build with. A lot of fun and is like having a single action pistol. You can have it pumped and one in the chamber but not cocked. All the same aftermarket mods will work except the power adjusters and hammer strings. I like mine. For $30 not a bad deal IMO.
I'm somewhat embarrassed about my initial lack of interest in this Crosman but I had another focus for that shopping expedition. The details of my brief encounter are fuzzy at best. The panel covering the breech and the cocking knob are the features that stood out in my mind as being markedly different than current production models. I can't remember the grips seeming to be any different than what we see today. I too, agree that it is what I've learned to be 2nd variant/phase II American Classic. I'm hoping that the internals are in relatively good condition and that gasket/seal rejuvenation is all that's necessary. We'll see. Flex
I just went thru my fathers Medalist II. I was talking to him some weeks back about looking for my old Crosman 22. He has been staying at my place in upstate New York and I hopped I had left it up there. Anyhow. He pulled his out and re juvenated his interest in plinking off the porch. ;) Ahh retarded life...
Anyhow he returned home with the gun and it who's pretty bad shape. I cleaned it up, did quick polish to improve trigger, crowned barrel and installed new O rings. It's a brand new gun!! Pop is happy look out tin cans!!
I remembered how round the trigger guard was and how the grip was same as the M150.
Is yours the one piece grip and round trigger guard?
Nice older guns, sure with I could find mine....
CW
30 bucks sounds like a good deal to me. The great thing about these pistols is that they can almost always be fixed if anything goes wrong. Have you considered that it may be the BB version? Maybe not what you want, but I have not seen that many around.
Rich
Here is mine. It is an early Pahze II. It has the plastic breech and no roll pin on the pump arm. It also has the one piece grips. Bought it new in 1980 from monkey wards.
Ducky that is one fine looking Crosman. Does it still shoot reliably?
Carl
Quote from: quickster47 on May 03, 2013, 06:39:54 PM
Ducky that is one fine looking Crosman. Does it still shoot reliably?
Carl
This gun is the reason I got on the forum. I wanted to find out how to get the C clip off the pump arm pin with out scratching the tube. I took it apart compleatly and found the brass valve in it. It shoots, but I need to put a new part in the valve that the hammer hits to let the air out. And a new transfer port seal. Noah sent me a new barrel and some other parts for it, just been on other projects and have not done the tear down again yet. But, yes it does shoot. Here is the part. I put an O-ring on this after I removed the green stuff.
I'm not exactly sure when my F-I-L will be shipping / bringing the pistol to me. :( I told him that there was "no rush" but (or course) that was a lie! ;) In the meantime, I've asked him to take a few pics and email them to me. I will be posting them once I get them. I'm guessing that it's a Phase II but hopeful that it might just an earlier model. In reading other posts RE: 1st vs 2nd variants, it seems like there might me a "gray area" for the ones built in 1981. Are there any "absolutes" that clearly differentiate a 1st variant form a 2nd variant? Were there serial #s on the Crosman air guns built in the '70s & '80s? I know that all of this really doesn't make any difference since "it is what it is" and I won't be taking it back, but sometimes a guy "just gots ta know". Flex
Yes, they have serial numbers. From what I understand is that after 1975 the first 3 numbers of the serial number is the Mfg. date;ie 176 would be Jan. 1976. The 2240 I just bought was 313, March 2013.
Quote from: Cwlongshot on May 03, 2013, 05:36:37 PM
He pulled his out and re juvenated his interest in plinking off the porch. ;) Ahh retarded life...
CW
CW, I sure hope your father is not reading this forum and your posts... ;D
Carl
Quote from: quickster47 on May 06, 2013, 07:58:48 PM
CW, I sure hope your father is not reading this forum and your posts... ;D
Carl
LOL Actually, that what HE CALLS retirement!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :P
CW
Quote from: Flex on May 06, 2013, 04:52:50 PM
I'm not exactly sure when my F-I-L will be shipping / bringing the pistol to me. :( I told him that there was "no rush" but (or course) that was a lie! ;) In the meantime, I've asked him to take a few pics and email them to me. I will be posting them once I get them. I'm guessing that it's a Phase II but hopeful that it might just an earlier model. In reading other posts RE: 1st vs 2nd variants, it seems like there might me a "gray area" for the ones built in 1981. Are there any "absolutes" that clearly differentiate a 1st variant form a 2nd variant? Were there serial #s on the Crosman air guns built in the '70s & '80s? I know that all of this really doesn't make any difference since "it is what it is" and I won't be taking it back, but sometimes a guy "just gots ta know". Flex
So it's June 1st and it's also my wife's birthday (Happy Birthday to her!) :). Her sister is here for a visit and I'm out on the back deck chatting with her and enjoying a beer on what's turned out to be a pretty decent day considering the nasty, rainy, stormy weather we've been seeing here in the Midwest over the past couple of weeks. The dog's going nutz over something, who knows? A few minutes late my wife comes out and says that UPS just dropped off her Birthday box from her Mom and Dad AND there's something in there for me there too :D! If you haven't already guessed, my F-I-L came thru and sent me my 2nd variant American Classic 8)! Needless to say I was pretty excited. I hadn't expected to see it until mid-July when we were going to see them next. Downside was the fact that the "Fun Police" (you know who) wasn't in on the deal :o and was of the opinion that I already had too many air guns (is there such a number?). She was distracted by the fact that the bulk of the stuff in the box was for her so I think I'm in the clear for the time being :-*. First thing that I noticed was it was in much better shape than I had remembered. It's got a bit of "dingage" here and there but nothing major and it's a bit dirty but I'm thinkin' it will clean up nicely. It's most definitely a 2nd variant. Plastic breech and 2 piece grip panels. A couple other noticeable differences from the current 1377s include a plastic trigger (I thought it might be brass), a 2 screw cover plate over the trigger linkage with straight blade screws, and square drive front breech screw. I'm hoping that there's a brass valve. I'll find that out soon enough. Since it's hardly a collector's piece, I'm not sure what exactly I'm going to do with it. First thing will be a complete disassembly. A valve rebuild may be done on general principles alone. Looks like another parts order in the near future. Anyway, here's a few pic for your delight and edification ;).
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5530.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5530.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5531.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5531.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5532.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5532.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5533.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5533.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5534.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5534.jpg.html)
As usual, I'm always happy to read about what others think about what's posted. Looking forward to the replies. Flex
Oh yeah! Looks like that will clean up nicely :-*
Move the pump forearm out of the way and remove the front screw that holds the grip frame and you will see either brass or allum. What are the first 3 numbers on the searial number? That will tell you when it was made. Looks nice. :-\
Quote from: mudduck48 on June 02, 2013, 03:04:42 AM
Move the pump forearm out of the way and remove the front screw that holds the grip frame and you will see either brass or allum. What are the first 3 numbers on the searial number? That will tell you when it was made. Looks nice. :-\
I'd be pleased if the valve was brass but I guess it really doesn't matter since it is what it is. BTW, the first 3 digits of the ser # are 894 so that would give a "born on" date of Aug 1994. Right? Flex
It should have a brass valve, it looks exactly like mine. I have an '02 1377 that had a brass valve, unless that one has been pulled apart after that and had a new valve put in it it'll be brass.
Not a bad find, that's in better shape than mine, might want to look at the inside of the barrel and see what the rifling looks like as that will have a magnet to push BB's...
Quote from: Flex on June 02, 2013, 05:23:01 AM
I'd be pleased if the valve was brass but I guess it really doesn't matter since it is what it is. BTW, the first 3 digits of the ser # are 894 so that would give a "born on" date of Aug 1994. Right? Flex
That's right.
Yeah that should clean up nicely i would disassemble it this way you can clean her up real good.
Mike
Quote from: Crosshairs on June 02, 2013, 09:11:30 PM
Yeah that should clean up nicely i would disassemble it this way you can clean her up real good.
Mike
The more I look at this pellet gun the more I wonder why I passed it up the first time I saw it at the resale shop. For some reason my 1st impression was that it was kind of a beater. I'm seeing now that is hardly the case. The main issue RE: it's appearance is that it was kinda dusty/dirty. A quick wipe down and some detailing action with an old toothbrush took all of that away. I've noticed on the cocking knob and the outer rim of the muzzle that there may have been some inadvertent contact with some concrete. It doesn't appear to have been dropped tho and the crown looks fine. I'm not certain whether on not it's ever been disassembled. The rear breech/sight screw and the screw holding the breech cover to the bolt look a little bit "Bubba'd". None of the other screws show signs that Bubba had had his way with them. Of course, that's not to say that someone who knows what he/she is doing hasn't worked on it. I've not had a good look at the bore but from what I can see, there's still rifling left (maybe not too many BBs) and no noticeable pitting. The "lawn furniture" is pristine and other than the "dingage" on the cocking knob and the muzzle the metal parts are in excellent condition. I'll have to report on the internals when I get around to taking her apart (should be soon). Later. Flex
you know that gun probably cost $30otd new they hold their value
I have a phase 2 since. my dad bought it new and would not let me touch it, he knew what would happen if I got my hands on it. after finding this forum this is how it looks today, you guessed what he knew would happen happened ;)
Quote from: 1377x on June 03, 2013, 05:50:33 AM
you know that gun probably cost $30otd new they hold their value
I have a phase 2 since. my dad bought it new and would not let me touch it, he knew what would happen if I got my hands on it. after finding this forum this is how it looks today, you guessed what he knew would happen happened ;)
You've done just a bit more than I have planned for mine ;) BUT I will concede that yours is one nice lookin' air gun! I'm happy that these things hold their value :). When I passed on the deal when I first saw it, the guy wanted $30 OTD. I'm thinking my F-I-L might have got him down to $25 but I'm not sure. As it turns out, although it's a bit early, this is to be my birthday present. (My in-laws are great!) :-* Flex
Quote from: 1377x on June 03, 2013, 05:50:33 AM
you know that gun probably cost $30otd new they hold their value
I have a phase 2 since. my dad bought it new and would not let me touch it, he knew what would happen if I got my hands on it. after finding this forum this is how it looks today, you guessed what he knew would happen happened ;)
I like the way your displaying it for the pictures!! :-\ :-\ :-\
CW
Quote from: Cwlongshot on June 03, 2013, 04:48:50 PM
I like the way your displaying it for the pictures!! :-\ :-\ :-\
CW
thanks
Quote from: Flex on June 03, 2013, 03:19:31 PM
You've done just a bit more than I have planned for mine ;) BUT I will concede that yours is one nice lookin' air gun! I'm happy that these things hold their value :). When I passed on the deal when I first saw it, the guy wanted $30 OTD. I'm thinking my F-I-L might have got him down to $25 but I'm not sure. As it turns out, although it's a bit early, this is to be my birthday present. (My in-laws are great!) :-* Flex
most of the time when you flash the cash its as good as sold. if they let you walk away then they really don't want to sell in the first place
this is the only gun I will ever keep, all other guns I own have a price tag on them except my glock30 ;) had to go all out on it. it even sports a phase 1 760 piston, works just as good as the flat top pistons made today although some will say otherwise.
imo they are a far better gun than the 1377/pc77 made today. brass valve and heavy hammer spring came stock
the aluminum valves corrode and will become useless if care is not taken. I don't feel like breaking my gun down every few months to make sure corrosion isn't stetting in, don't have to do that with a brass valve
my seals kept for 20+ years without an issue. only changed them because I start modding the gun and sais why not it deserves new seals after 20+ years of use. my dad kept it oiled and treated it with care. any gun will keep if you treat it right
when my dad bought it it had a $28.88 price tag on it from Gibson's.
it still is a work in progress the grip frame needs to be refinished. i'll send it to a forum member that does the powder coating when I get time to finish removing all the casting marks
Quote from: 1377x on June 03, 2013, 11:01:29 PM
imo they are a far better gun than the 1377/pc77 made today. brass valve and heavy hammer spring came stock
the aluminum valves corrode and will become useless if care is not taken. I start modding the gun and sais why not it deserves new seals after 20+ years of use. my dad kept it oiled and treated it with care. any gun will keep if you treat it right
it still is a work in progress the grip frame needs to be refinished. i'll send it to a forum member that does the powder coating when I get time to finish removing all the casting marks
That was the afterthought that I had on the trip back home a few days after I had passed on this pellet gun. Since I knew that it was an early model (just didn't have any specifics), I should have just bought it on the potential of better internal components. In all fairness tho, I do also have one of the latest versions of the 1377 (the infamous Amazon.com $40 special) and I'm totally pleased with it! I have had no issues with it what-so-ever and it's darn accurate! I will now, of course, be paying more attention to keeping the internal components in good condition. As for the future of my newest addition, I'm not sure exactly what I'll be doing with/to it. So I guess it's a work in stasis. I've been considering switching to .22 cal with the parts that I have left over from a barrel upgrade and steel breech swap out on my BackPacker. For now however, it's just going to be disassembly, fluff & buff, reassembly. I too, noticed the casting marks on the grip frame and wondered if I should smooth them out. I'm not planning on putting too much $$$ into it so I doubt that powder coating will be happening. I bet it would look nice tho. I know that some folks strip and polish the zamak 3 for a nice looking grip frame. I've polished some of the zamak 3 components on a couple of my powder burners with good results. We'll have to see. Flex
Here is my phase I 1377 made in 1977 it has the steel breech and one piece grips, shoots great.
Mike
Quote from: Crosshairs on June 04, 2013, 03:55:18 AM
Here is my phase I 1377 made in 1977 it has the steel breech and one piece grips, shoots great.
Mike
Very nice. Family Heirloom?
sometimes I wish I would have kept my phase1 if it was as nice as that one I would have
I polished one grip frame and the upkeep was to much for me to handle. they do look very good polished to a mirror finish
it was actually on my phase 2 must have sold it because I no longer have it and cant remember what happened to it
same goes for a 1701 grip frame I cant find must have sold it ???
really need to keep track of my sales then I wont spend hours looking for something I no longer have :-[ ;D
Ed the phase I 1377s are out there bro. I looked for a year till I found this one at my price, another reason I wanted it was to replace the one that got stolen out of my car many years ago and to complete my 1377 collection. I think I have most of them now. I just might post my 13XX collection some day.
Mike
Well, I didn't do a complete tear-down but I did remove everything above the pump tube for inspection and cleaning before reassembly. I do have a few questions. Since most folks don't recommend shooting BBs thru rifled barrels, I kinda wonder why Crosman set this gun up to shoot both BBs and pellets. After I took the barrel off, I was able to get a better look at it. The rifling is in pretty good shape and the bore is bright. In a couple of places tho, there are some longitudinal markings. Are these marks made by shooting steel BBs? How badly does it impact on the accuracy with pellets? Is it a cause for concern? Next issue, when I removed the breech (plastic BTW) there was a rectangular, flat piece of steel underneath the rear half of the breech. I looks like a spacer of some sort. On the underside of the breech itself is a rectangular aperature. I just assumed tha the steel "spacer" fit there kinda keeping the brass bolt from directly contacting the top of the pump tube. Now that it's back together, I do notice a "rattle" in that area and suspect that it's that piece. Is there a special way to position that piece or is the rattle expected? The breech appears to sit the tiniest bit off of the pump tube in the area of the transfer port. Is the "spacer" supposed to compensate for that? Is the transfer port the culprit? I know that with the newer guns, there is an up and a down to the transfer port but this one appears to have no difference RE: top or bottom position. Is there a problem or is just part of the design? Last question and I'll start out by saying I'm not really feeling the love for the loading cover arrangement. Is it supposed to be loose and floppy when it's not in battery? I put a foam tape spacer in the rear half of the loading cover to take out the slop. It does the job but I don't know how durable it will be.
As much of this post so far sounds a bit "whinny", I still am very happy to have this pellet gun. As many have suggested, she really cleaned up nice! I was able to dress up the muzzle dingage to the point that the casual observer would never notice that there was ever a problem. I'm not going to even mess with restoring the cocking knob. I did have to replace the O-ring on the bolt with a very close match to the original that I found at my local store. I also did a partial "DIY" bolt kit upgrade and replaced the rear breech screw and the grip frame screws with hex head cap screws. When you guys tell me what to do with the rattle, I'll be set. Pics later. Flex
Quote from: Crosshairs on June 04, 2013, 03:55:18 AM
Here is my phase I 1377 made in 1977 it has the steel breech and one piece grips, shoots great.
Mike
Man, that's about the year I got mine at twelve years old (maybe a couple years earlier). If only I knew to hang on to it. :(
Yes siree! It did clean up nice. Those seeing it for the first time just might think it was new.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5536.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5536.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5537.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5537.jpg.html)
I have newer ones with more scratches than this one!
The muzzle rehab turned out nice (if I do say so myself ;). There's a scratch of some kind inside the very end of the barrel.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5540.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5540.jpg.html)
Must have been there when I got it. As I said before, probably not going the mess with the scratches on the cocking knob. I'm still concerned RE: the rattle from the small rectangular plate between the bolt and the pump tube. Flex
Looks new now nice job.
Mike
She Did clean up nice!! :-* :)
Looking Good Flex!! :)
Flex: keep going and you will have a nice resto before you know it. Ya, the early 13XX guns had some great features but... the rotating breech cover wasnt one of e'm IMO, tends to cling and clank around.
Quote from: BDS on June 06, 2013, 04:43:47 PM
Flex: keep going and you will have a nice resto before you know it. Ya, the early 13XX guns had some great features but... the rotating breech cover wasnt one of e'm IMO, tends to cling and clank around.
I'm working on a more permanent fix but as a temporary measure, I put a small patch of foam tape, a little more than 1/2" x 1/2", on the rear half of the underside of the breech cover. It definitely takes the rattle out and actually makes the cover look level when it's closed.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/topgas1/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5539.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/topgas1/media/Air%20Guns/Air%20Pistols/DSCN5539.jpg.html).
It will work for now but there's a tendency for the tape to "roll up" under the cover. Fortunately, only one screw has to be removed to put a new piece. I'm thinking that a shim of plastic maybe 1/16"-3/32" thick fastened to the underside of the cover with double-faced tape might be my next trial. Flex
have you tried flipping the spacer over one side is flat and the other has a very slight curve to it.
make sure your screws are tightened
sounds like the fix worked for you
after many years of shooting bbs through my gun accuracy never faltered but I wanted a sreel breech on my gun so I upgraded to a rjmachine riser breech and current production bolt and barrel
since these guns are not really collector items unless you have the box and paperwork, I say add an aftermarket breech bolt and barrel and have the best shooting 1377 possible ;)
Quote from: 1377x on June 10, 2013, 11:13:18 PM
have you tried flipping the spacer over one side is flat and the other has a very slight curve to it.
make sure your screws are tightened
sounds like the fix worked for you
after many years of shooting bbs through my gun accuracy never faltered but I wanted a sreel breech on my gun so I upgraded to a rjmachine riser breech and current production bolt and barrel
since these guns are not really collector items unless you have the box and paperwork, I say add an aftermarket breech bolt and barrel and have the best shooting 1377 possible ;)
RE: the "spacer", it did seem like one side was different than the other (kind of finished vs unfinished). When I put it back together, I used the telltale "wear" marks to determine the upside from the downside. I will check again tho, to see if there is a curved vs flat side. I would guess that the curved side would rest atop the pump tube. I'm not exactly sure what that spacer actually does. The only thing I can think of would be to support the bolt. If, after I see if the spacer is positioned properly, it still rattles, I may just put a dab of bearing grease on the underside to slow the movement down a bit. If the spacer is critical to function, it's in the correct position since the gun works just fine.
I agree that this gun is hardly a "collector's item". I may just keep it "as is" for general principles. With some previous and upcoming mods to a couple of my other airguns, I'm going to have a spare 10.5" .22call barrel and the stock (plastic) breech and stock brass bolt. I guess that would make it a hybrid 1322/2nd variant. I'm also guessing that it would still be a pretty good shooter in that mode. I think that most would agree that the internal components of the Crosman pumpers of that vintage are superior to the comparable versions being sold currently. Flex
Now here is a thread that is over a year old.
And when you get done I can tell you how to get your trigger pull down to 1lb. :-*