I'm relatively new at this so please bear with me. I have a 2300 KT (.177) on order for my wife with a 10.1" barrel. She'll be using Crosman High Velocity Lead Free 4.0 grain pellets for both target and rat control. Can anybody give me an educated guess on what muzzle velocity (FPS) I can expect with this combination?
i cant give you a velocity answer
but can tell you those pellets arent known for their accuracy.if you tried them and acurracy is there then that will the first i have read.
fpe is more important than velocity for pest control
We haven't tried the pellets yet so I can't speak to the accuracy issues. Do you have any suggestions on which pellets would be more suitable? Thanks
i know there are some posts here about velocity
i can see what they are putting out and get a better answer for pellet choice
i am sure someone else will chime in with suggestions also
so one way or another you will soon get a answer!
Thanks for the information, in the meantime I'm going to do some searching and see what I can come up with.
Here are some number from my 2300KT shooter which is very similar to your 2300T. Same caliber and same LW barrel. My numbers were gathered using 7.0 grain wadcutters.
Carl
That's great information. Gives me a good idea of what I'm to expect. So let's up the ante a bit. How much more velocity and energy can I suspect if I go to a 14 inch barrel? Is there a formula that lets you know how many FPS increase for each additional inch of barrel length?
Well there is sort of a de facto standard that says you get about 10 FPS per inch. Not totally accurate but close. I think I have some numbers from a 14" barrel somewhere. Let me see if I can find them.
Carl
My stock 2300KT is shooting around 530 fps with a 7.0 grain pellet.
I would suggest using pellets at least 7-10 grains in weight. For general plinking, most any Crosman pellet from WalMart is fine. I use RWS Hobby and JSB Exact for velocity testing and general fooling around. If you want to do more serious target shooting with high accuracy, look at offerings from RWS, H&N, and JSB.
for pesting with low power less than 600fps .177
i would use crosman hunting pointed pellets or some rws super pointed pellets
i found that destoyer ex or any hollow point other than predators dont get the needed penetration
I guess I was under the impression that the Crosman high velocity lead free hollowpoint pellets would put me over the 600 FPS mark. Another alternative would be buy a 14"(at least) 22 barrel and bolt.
Quote from: Themajickman on November 24, 2011, 09:20:12 PM
I guess I was under the impression that the Crosman high velocity lead free hollowpoint pellets would put me over the 600 FPS mark. Another alternative would be buy a 14"(at least) 22 barrel and bolt.
ir would likely put you over the 600 mark but at 4gr the fpe would be close to 3.2 fpe which less than minimal for humane kills
your barrel would literally need to be point blank if not touching the rat
a 7.4gr pellet going 500fps would net you at 4.1fpe imo still underpowered
14".22 barrel lets say 450fps using a 14.3gr pellet would get you 6.4fpe that would be the minimum i would use for pesting
check this link out it should be helpful
http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm (http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm)
same info.a little easier to read
http://www.airguns.net/general_field_use.php (http://www.airguns.net/general_field_use.php)
I'm definitely going to take some time and read it all. Happy thanksgiving to all
These are also 4 gr. pellets, and in my experience are a lot more accurate than the Crosman SSP.
I bought a tin of the pointed SSP pellets. I shot about 30 of them, a few in all my guns, before deciding they are just inaccurate. I gave the rest of them away. I hated to lose the tin though, it was a good tin.
I've also found that Skenco Pointed Poly Match are better penetrators than 7.3 gr. lead domed pellets, at least against a 10 oz. orange juice bottle.
Any of these at a rat should be plenty of medicine. The polymer tip of the Skenco is harder than a pointed lead or tin tip, and I think they'll penetrate more than a comparable metallic pellet.
If I were the one shooting them, I'd decide between JSB Exact RS domes at 7.3 gr. and Skenco Pointed Poly Match.
As for velocity, I can't tell you out of a 2300, but out of a 1377, a 7 gr. pellet at 10 pumps is about 510 fps. The Skenco moves out at 653 fps. My 1377 is about the same power level as a stock 2300, maybe just a touch less powerful.
On rats, I wouldn't worry so much about being humane. They're pests, not game animals. We don't worry about poisoning them, or putting down glue traps. I would argue that an inhumane kill with a pellet gun is still better than a long, starving death in a glue trap.
In my guns anyway, the heavier pellets are more accurate. I am not sure about humane kills with rats as none of them I have shot have ever gone anywhere even with light pellets. However, I imagine that even at slower speeds, heavier pellets will take out rats just a well as the lighter ones, maybe better. I prefer accuracy.
IMMHO only and as always, YMMV.
Cheers,
Jerry
After evaluating all of the variables presented here I decided to purchase with a Gamo 7.1 gr. PBA lead free (copper) pellets.
Got this off a website:
"Gamo PBA Bullet .177 (per 150) - 632272054
Gamo .177 cal. PBA® Bullet - A PRECISION NON-LEAD HUNTING PELLET WITH TRUER FLIGHT, LONGER SKIRT & GREATER PENETRATION.
Copper retains 100% of its weight after expansion, retaining velocity/energy â€" creating less ballistic drag. The shape and long skirt create a flatter trajectory and tighter group patterns. Terminal impact for a clean, vital shot kill. The PBA® Bullet produces 30% More Terminal Impact.
- Caliber: .177
- 7.1 gr
- Per 150
- Type: PBA, Lead Free
Let us know how they work. Inquiring minds want to know.
Cheers,
Jerry
It will be interesting to read your report on those Gamo pellets because most folks don't seem to care for their pellets. They also have some pretty shady business doings from what I've read.
Carl
Shady business doings :( . Hopefully because I ordered through Amazon any of their shenanigans should be transparent to me.
Since the gun is on order and it could be here before Christmas my wife is getting quite antsy about getting to shoot these to see how they perform. I'm thinking about buying a break barrel rifle for her to start plinking around with in the meantime. :-*
you know we are going to need a range report on the gun and ammo when you get them!
Interested in your results also. I've shot a few Raptor's in my 'stock' 1377 - they are faster than lead and penetrate well, but seem quite "hard" and have little expansion.
Interesting... I read this thread and decided to order a tin if Gamo PBA in .22 cal.
Since the 2300 KT won't arrive until around Christmas, I went ahead and ordered an inexpensive Ruger Mark .177 break barrel pistol from Wally world last night. We'll be picking it up this morning and mounting a red dot/laser sight on it. It definitely won't be as accurate as the 2300 but at least it's something to shoot. Supposedly it will shoot at 600 FPS, which isn't too shabby. We'll see.....
In alot of cases heavier and a bit slower still carries more energy. I wouls not use PBA or lead free pellets in anyof my guns, if for no other reason than......if the technology was more than gimmick, the higher end pellets manufacturers would have begun doing it as well.
As far as Gamo's shady business, it has less to do with individual purchases, and more to do with things on a larger scale. Gamo filmed a video of a guy using a PBA pellet to dispatch a hog, which is inhumane and irresponsible advertising at the minimum. They also, pretty blatanly stole the design for thier redfire polymer tipped pellets from the Predator Polymag. Patent lawsuit in process now. Most of us hope Gamo loses, and the orginal designer gets paid.
Makes me glad that I've never ordered anything Gamo. RC
Themajickman
thats a pretty cool red dot
Do you have the red dot in hand? Does the laser come on when you turn the red dot on or is there a momentary switch you mount?
Pretty cool. Never seen that one before your post.
Carl
Never mind, just found the instruction set for the device.
http://www.ncstar.com/TechSup/DLB140R.pdf (http://www.ncstar.com/TechSup/DLB140R.pdf)
Carl
seems to be a pretty decent rd/laser combo
3moa dot is what a lot of high end rd's come with.objective is a lil big for my tastes but i like it all the same
Mounted the sight on the Ruger (needed a 3/8" dovetail to Weaver adapter). The weather is kind of crummy so we haven't had a chance to dial it in yet.
Quote from: Themajickman on November 28, 2011, 11:32:13 PM
Mounted the sight on the Ruger (needed a 3/8" dovetail to Weaver adapter). The weather is kind of crummy so we haven't had a chance to dial it in yet.
please post pics when/if you can?
Tried to download some pictures but apparently they were too large. I've resized them and hopefully they can be seen. Also purchased a GREEN/red/laser scope but it is really dinky compared to the first one. Hopefully it will be usable. Still not able to get outside, snow in Georgia, who would guess.
Whew, big difference in the optics.
Carl
I was really surprised to see the difference in size. The specifications are not online but it has unlimited eye relief and 1 M0A which I consider acceptable. Here is the website picture that I went by, you have no way of telling how big it is :o
nice!
get any range time in yet?
With no scale reference you have no idea what you are getting. Even the dimensions are sometimes misleading.
Carl
Quote from: dpricenator on November 28, 2011, 06:38:21 PM
In alot of cases heavier and a bit slower still carries more energy. I wouls not use PBA or lead free pellets in anyof my guns, if for no other reason than......if the technology was more than gimmick, the higher end pellets manufacturers would have begun doing it as well.
I wouldn't yet call Skenco generally respected, but after trying their Pointed Poly Match, I'll be trying more of their offerings. Here's some lead-free ones that I'll try soon:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Hyper_Velocity_Field_Pellets_Type_1_for_Standard_Guns_177_Cal_5_4_Grains_Pointed_Lead_Free_200ct/243 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Hyper_Velocity_Field_Pellets_Type_1_for_Standard_Guns_177_Cal_5_4_Grains_Pointed_Lead_Free_200ct/243)
I do consider Beeman/H&N to be a high end pellet mfr though:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Beeman_ECO_Field_Target_Special_177_Cal_5_56_Grains_Domed_Lead_Free_300ct/919 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Beeman_ECO_Field_Target_Special_177_Cal_5_56_Grains_Domed_Lead_Free_300ct/919)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Beeman_ECO_Kodiak_177_Cal_6_48_Grains_Domed_Lead_Free_300ct/921 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Beeman_ECO_Kodiak_177_Cal_6_48_Grains_Domed_Lead_Free_300ct/921)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Field_Target_Trophy_Green_177_Cal_Lead_Free_5_56_Grains_Domed_200ct/749 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Field_Target_Trophy_Green_177_Cal_Lead_Free_5_56_Grains_Domed_200ct/749)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Baracuda_Green_Lead_Free_177_Cal_6_48_Grains_Round_Nose_200ct/842 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Baracuda_Green_Lead_Free_177_Cal_6_48_Grains_Round_Nose_200ct/842)
RWS makes some high-end lead-free pellets:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/RWS_HyperMAX_177_Cal_5_2_Grains_Pointed_Lead_Free_100ct/675 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/RWS_HyperMAX_177_Cal_5_2_Grains_Pointed_Lead_Free_100ct/675)
Granted, I'm not sure how well they'll shoot out of the more powerful guns. One would need to somehow get lead-free pellets that are heavy enough without being too long. Maybe some kind of polymer coated tungsten?
Fair enough.
Maybe it speaks to my point, that i have never seem a hunting post that said, "Look at the damage these lead free pellets do". Lead has been doing the trick since before this country was a country, so I'll stick with it.
Quote from: dpricenator on November 29, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Fair enough.
Maybe it speaks to my point, that i have never seem a hunting post that said, "Look at the damage these lead free pellets do". Lead has been doing the trick since before this country was a country, so I'll stick with it.
Yep, fair point. I think most hunting is done with the higher power guns.
I was thinking of doing some hunting a while back with my stock 1377. Shoots 500 fps. I thought going to lighter pellets and getting another 150 fps might do the trick to flatten out the trajectory and a pointed pellet should still ensure adequate penetration on birds, rabbits, and squirrels, at least.
I never did try it, and I'm still torn on whether to go that route or the 7.3 gr. Exact RS pellets, which are more proven.
The only pellet and gun I've hunted with was the Crosman Premier Light out of my Stoeger X20 at about 920 fps. On a chipmunk. Texas heart shot. But not at all comparable to the above.